Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: Dispatches: Undercover Mosque
A Dispatches reporter attends mosques run by organisations whose public faces are presented as moderate and finds preachers condemning integration into British society, condemning democracy and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers. Prime Minister Tony Blair recently described tolerance as 'what makes Britain Britain' but in this extensive investigation Dispatches reveals how a message of hatred and segregation is being spread throughout the UK and examines how it is influenced by the religious establishment of Saudi Arabia.
Dispatches has investigated a number of mosques run by high profile national organisations that claim to be dedicated to moderation and dialogue with other faiths. But an undercover reporter joined worshippers to find a message of religious bigotry and extremism being preached. He captures chilling sermons in which Saudi-trained preachers proclaim the supremacy of Islam, preach hatred for non-Muslims and for Muslims who do not follow their extreme beliefs - and predict a coming jihad. "An army of Muslims will arise," announces one preacher. Another preacher said British Muslims must "dismantle" British democracy - they must "live like a state within a state" until they are "strong enough to take over."
The investigation reveals Saudi Arabian universities are recruiting young Western Muslims to train them in their extreme theology, then sending them back to the West to spread the word. And the Dispatches reporter discovers that British Muslims can ask for fatwas, religious rulings, direct from the top religious leader in Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti. Saudi-trained preachers are also promoted in DVDs and books on sale at religious centres and sermons broadcast on websites. These publications and webcasts disseminate beliefs about women such as: "Allah has created the woman deficient, her intellect is incomplete", and girls: "By the age of 10 if she doesn't wear hijab, we hit her," and there's an extreme hostility towards homosexuals.
The investigation reveals that the influence of Saudi Arabian Islam, Wahabism, extends beyond the walls of some mosques to influential organisations that advise the British government on inter-community relations and prevention of terrorism. The Dispatches reporter attends talks at mosques run by key organisations whose public faces are presented as moderate and mainstream - and finds preachers condemning the idea of integration into British society, condemning British democracy as un-Islamic and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers.
Undercover Mosque features interviews with moderate British Muslim figures who are speaking out against the influence of Saudi Arabia's extreme brand of Islam, which is seeking to overturn Islamic traditions of diversity and peaceful co-existence: "We are losing our children to extremists," says Haras Rafiq of the Sufi Muslim Council. Dr Al Alawi of the Islamic Heritage Foundation also warns: "If this continues, you will have extremist mosques in every corner of the UK. You will not have moderate Muslims walking on our streets anymore."
From the sounds of it, this doc is going to cause quite the kick-up... and is bound to be used in example by those who hate all people that even look like being Islamic.
I'll not be able to cap this myself because of other programmes, but I'm sure I'll get hold of it and be able to post it tomorrow.
The particular Wahabi bigots featured in this programme don't represent Islam as I know it - they represent the very worst of society; the intolerant and the cuntish. Um Saleem and her teachers can fuck right off!
One main irony of it all was that, in her demand that 'real' Moslems should live in a Moslem country, she was actually defeating the aims of true Islam - in trying to spread the word of that religion (and any other for that matter). What if the first immigrants to Britain couldn't 'live amongst the Khaffur' and be considered faithful? How could that ever have lead to any development of the faith? It's idiotic.
The quality of Islam, as I understand it, is in logic and reason - something that is utterly lacking in these extremist, evangelical, bastards.
Hhhmm...that's a quality rant there Faceless. All good points and well made. I am an atheistic heathen but if anyone gets succorr from their faith they are welcome to it.
As far as I can remember most major religions say that speading the word is a good thing. In fact they would die off if the "word" wasn't spread. My only caveat is don't be like Jehovah's bleedin' Witnesses and try and ram it down peoples throats. That and don't preach that anyone who doesn't believe in your religion is wrong and should be wiped out.
So sayeth the Lord...oh,urm, I mean, right, cobweb, I agree. I don't mind anyone who wants to discuss their religion...discuss being the operative word. Pick someone who WANTS to discuss it and then be open for differing opinions. Discussing and being preached to are two different things. Discuss for discussion sake, not conversion!
that was some going for sure... the answer to the badgering question should have been that the comments made by the woman in the mosque were not the official 'sermons' that the mosque put out, but merely that of a side grouping. I've absolutely no doubt that you could find people like that in any large group of religious people - there's certainly enough Christians and Jews who are zealous enough about their beliefs.
George got bitch slapped here....you can't just ask someone "Did that happen?" and hope they crumble. He steadfastly refused to answer two very pertinent questions from the interviewee.
Regardless who you agree with on this on he got pwned here big stylee.
I just watched the whole clip from the Press TV site - the "GaIIoway" scumbag on youtube has cut out a whole section where Galloway beats him down... it changes the entire effect. I'm just sorting the clip for upload now.
I couldn't get it edited, but if you go to about 19'30 in this video you'll see the whole section that was cut out - the part which should appear at 6'00 into the clip above.
In the full version George says something about "There's no such thing as a preacher in Islam, people can just get up and speak even if the rest don't agree". That doesn't cut it with me. I wish George had the balls to just condemn the footage instead of being soooo pro Islam that he borders on apologism.
If he learned how to give an inch every now and then he'd take many more miles.
Why can't he just say "Yes, the people in this documentary were frothing scum, and the things they said were filth, but they don't represent regular, British Muslims"? Instead, he's doing everything he can to avoid the point - indeed, the fact - that those despicable words were spoken, and were caught on camera.
His attitude of deflecting and diluting the point of order by bringing up other things - "Why aren't you filming undercover with Jews and Christians?" - reminds me of the same sort of idiotic, non sequiter sidetracks I was faced with when I was writing about homosexuality in Iran. The subject on the table is the subject on the table - simple as that. I think it is one of the lowest techniques of debate to lessen someone's point of view by picking things similar to it and saying "You talk so much about X, but why aren't you talking about Y and Z?"
Because the subject is X, you twat!
George has been on the other side of the same coin himself and not played ball. I remember him on Question Time and someone brought up Cuba, and he was like "That's got nothing to do with this subject". I agreed with him - it was a filibuster and a pathetic distraction technique - but apparently he isn't above the same technique as long as it's in his deploy.
The facts that we need to deal with here are that women were subject to these teachings and pronouncements by a figure of authority - "preacher" or no - and perhaps still are. It's about time people like GG started condemning Wahabism absolutely and not trying to sidetrack the debate. All religions have their extremist nutjobs, and all religions deserve those extremist nutjobs to be exposed publically and shown to be the cunts they are.
If you take the first video purely as seen then you'd imagine that Galloway was on the backfoot all the way through, and reacted like an arse as a result; my first comment was based on that impression. The editing is actually quite professional, and considering the edits and reencodes they must have spent about 2-3 hours doing it.
After watching the full exchange, which included the comments in which Galloway hit back with relevant comments about Pat Robertson and his (paraphrasing here) twisted descendants in the Republican party, it put things in a different light for me.
As far as Galloway not calling the Wahabis out - he did to an extent, but I agree that he should just call them what they are. I don't think he's any more pro-Islam than he is pro-Irish, for example, though.
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