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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | So is it true that sodomy is a crime punishable by death in Iran? All the sources I can find say yes, and if so then you can be hanged in Iran for being gay.
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If you read the bible or other religious books literally, then you may find v. disagreeable things. The issue is if there was ever a case of Iran doing so, which I doubt.
There was a joke that if you were caught committing adultery, you were stoned to death .. but you had to be seen by 3 independent witnesses. The joke was that if you were caught in the act by 3 independent witnesses then you deserve whatever comes to you. |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | | If you read the bible or other religious books literally, then you may find v. disagreeable things. The issue is if there was ever a case of Iran doing so, which I doubt. |
What?!
Just read back to yourself what you've written. It makes no sense!
Are you saying that you doubt Iran has ever read a religious book literally? Or are you saying that you doubt Iran has read a religious book and found the literal interpretation of its content disagreeable? You've totally lost me on this one.
As George would say: Provide further and better particulars. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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By "doing so", I was referring to allegations that the Iranian government murder people for acts done privately between consenting adults.
Which reminds me, there was a thread on the couch of a person being prosecuted in a Western country (possibly Britain) for sex with a BICYCLE in the privacy of one's own bedroom. To complain about Iran's persecution of homosexuals seems a bit double-standard. |
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Comsatangel
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Are you sure it wasn't someone caught having sex with the local bike? It's not quite the same thing! |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | | ... there was a thread on the couch of a person being prosecuted in a Western country (possibly Britain) for sex with a BICYCLE in the privacy of one's own bedroom. To complain about Iran's persecution of homosexuals seems a bit double-standard. |
I hope I'm not the only person who thinks that's an astoundingly awful thing to say. I wonder if George Galloway knows his website is being run by someone who makes light of the execution of homosexuals by comparing it to men who get a slap on the wrist for drunkenly mock-fornicating with inanimate objects in hotel rooms. Do you really think the two are comparable - and apparently comparable to the degree that it constitutes a double-standard that I didn't mention it while condemning state murder? Even by your standards that comment is so flippant and snide it borders on cretinous.
For the other people who are following this thread: I've been doing quite a bit of research into this matter and I'll write up my findings shortly. This is an issue I'm afraid George has missed the ball on totally... |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I must admit that I thought it was a pretty obtuse combination of cases to compare as well, but I don't think it was snide. The important point is, as Scott Capurro pointed out yesterday on The Wright Stuff, and you Kate are emphasising, that people are being killed by their government. However, there is condemnation of alternative sexualities all over the world and focussing on Iran's problems is the issue in this case.
I read that Texas only repealed its law against homosexuality in 2003 - and even then only because of changes in federal law. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | | I hope I'm not the only person who thinks that's an astoundingly awful thing to say. I wonder if George Galloway knows his website is being run by someone who makes light of the execution of homosexuals by comparing it to men who get a slap on the wrist for drunkenly mock-fornicating with inanimate objects in hotel rooms. Do you really think the two are comparable - and apparently comparable to the degree that it constitutes a double-standard that I didn't mention it while condemning state murder? Even by your standards that comment is so flippant and snide it borders on cretinous. |
Kate,
Stop trying to slander George by association. I do NOT run George Galloway's web site. You would be well at home in Mccarthy witch hunts .. why not check out the personal views of all the writers, actors, consultants, programmers etc and then hassle the employers to fire the ones you don't agree with.
I think it is absolutely scandalous that you try to tie any posting I make in a personal capacity with any work I might do .. it isn't even in a private thread .. this is a public thread.
Secondly, there is no proof against the Iranian government. I mentioned the false planted story of "babies thrown out of incubators in Kuwait" as an example of why we must not take at face value most stories against the "next target".
You either believe in freedom of sexuality or you don't .. clearly you don't feel anything for the "bicycle" man .. well I DO .. where do you draw the line : Sex Toys next ? BDSM ? Thin edge of the wedge against fascism at home .. but of-course you don't see that (until it might be too late).
Like George, I totally condemn ALL capital punishment .. I don't have double-standards. |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | | Stop trying to slander George by association. |
Are you really so narcissistically oblivious to criticism that you assume I'm trying to defame George using you as a conduit?! I'm criticising you, and you alone.
Even if I were trying to defame George (which is a ridiculous accusation), it wouldn't be slander: we're not communicating verbally. Remember how you read my words and didn't hear them? That should have been a giant clue.
| Mandy wrote: | | You would be well at home in Mccarthy witch hunts .. why not check out the credentials of all the writers, actors, consultants, programmers etc and then hassle the employers to fire the ones you don't agree with. |
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I'm beginning to think I'm dealing with a lunatic.
| Mandy wrote: | | Secondly, there is no proof against the Iranian government. I mentioned the false planted story of "babies thrown out of incubators in Kuwait" as an example of why we must not take at face value most stories against the "next target". |
I'll address this properly in the essay I'm currently compiling. All I'll say at the moment to your "no proof" assertion (assuming you're referring to the execution of homosexuals - you often fail to reference your points so I can't be sure) is that you obviously have no deference to Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Comission. I suppose you know better than them.
| Mandy wrote: | | You either believe in freedom of sexuality or you don't .. |
I do.
| Mandy wrote: | | ... clearly you don't feel anything for the "bicycle" man .. well I DO .. where do you draw the line : Sex Toys next ? BDSM ? Thin edge of the wedge against fascism at home .. but of-course you don't see that (until it might be too late). |
Stop now before you embarrass yourself further. Oh, the poor "bicycle man"! They came for the bike fuckers, but I was not a bike fucker...
Do you even know anything about that case other than the scant report that was linked to here a while ago? It was a paralytically drunk idiot who was residing in a hotel room, and when some maids came in to tidy the room they found him with his trousers around his ankles, pretending to hump a bicycle. I imagine he did it as a joke, and the main reason for his court hearing was due more to the charge of being drunk and disorderly, creating a scene and indecent exposure. You seriously equate that incident with suppression of sexual freedom? I can't even believe you'd bring up such an idiotic, trivial case in a thread dealing with execution.
I dare you to make George aware of this thread and have him read it. Seriously. I dare you, Mandy. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Kate, you should re-read the BBC report, extract below
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7098116.stm
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The case of a man convicted of simulating sex with his bicycle has sparked a debate about human rights and the privacy of an individual.
Stewart admitted a sexually aggravated breach of the peace by conducting himself in a disorderly manner and simulating sex. As well as being put on register for three years, he was put on probation for the same length of time.
One contributor asked: "Would they have done the same to a woman with a sex toy?
"Apart from the fact that the sex toy was manufactured for the purpose, and a bicycle wasn't, I really don't see that the two acts are all that different."
Another blogger said: "I am more disturbed by the sheriff's ruling than the act of having sex with a bike."
One person wrote: "It's bad news for privacy in the UK because of how a ruling like this could be used to support similar cases in future."
Legal experts said he would have been placed on the Sex Offenders' Register under Section 80 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
This states that a person should be put on the register "if the court determines that there was a significant sexual aspect to the offender's behaviour in committing the offence".
This is not the first legal case involving someone simulating sex with an inanimate object.
* In 1997 Robert Watt, 38, was fined £100 for trying to have sex with a shoe in an Edinburgh street
* In 2002 the same man was arrested for simulating sex with a traffic cone in front of a crowd of people
* Earlier this month, sentence was deferred on teenager Steven Marshall, from Galashiels, who admitted simulating sex on a pavement while drunk.
Human rights lawyer John Scott told the BBC Scotland news website that the case raised important privacy issues.
He said: "It certainly prompts questions about what people can and can't do behind closed doors with inanimate objects.
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There isn't much of a gap between being arrested for simulating sex on a pavement and being arrested for homosexual activity |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| if it was a closed door then how did the maid find him? I'm reminded of the Billy Connolly gag - 'what's the most sensitive part of your body when you're having a wank?' - 'Your ears!'. |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | | There isn't much of a gap between being arrested for simulating sex on a pavement and being arrested for homosexual activity |
There might not be much of a gap in your mind, but when you've got a rope around your neck the gap between your feet and the ground becomes very significant indeed. Don't you dare compare this spurious bicycle case with the murder of people in Iran - you are as callous as you are moronic for continuing with this worthless and utterly irrelevant comparison.
You have succeeded, however, in derailing this thread - which is maybe what you planned on all along, who knows.
I note that you have failed to address any of my points, preferring to continue with your nonsense side-topic. Let me borrow again from a famous Galloway line: "Lost yer bottle?"
(note for people reading this thread - you'll see how some of my quotations from Mandy have infact been erased from her original posts - I assure you she published them and soon after deleted them) |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | if it was a closed door then how did the maid find him? I'm reminded of the Billy Connolly gag - 'what's the most sensitive part of your body when you're having a wank?' - 'Your ears!'. |
I believe the door was locked, but the maids used their special key which unlocks all doors.
| Quote: | | He was reported by cleaners at a hostel who unlocked his door and found him engaged in a sex act with his bike. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
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in that case it is a case of sexual proclivities being used to condemn when there wasn't a public issue. In common law it would appear to be actually worse than Iran's legal system, where a public display is required for the law to act.
The idea that in Iran you will apparently be lashed 3 times in separate cases before a death sentence is passed may be worth bearing in mind. The law is an ass - but should we say 'fuck it'? |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I just realised that the story micky posted on the previous page wasn't actually the case that's being talked about here... that was a bit embarassing as I'd mentioned it on some blog. |
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