david irving and nick griffin at the oxford union

nekokate · Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Location: West Yorkshire, UK

I agree with Salim that there is a definite hypocricy in the "freedom of speech" issue, but that shouldn't influence people's rationalisation.

Just because something is unjust in one instance, shouldn't justify every other injustice. That's the sort of self-defeatist argument that my father uses, like "Oh, so you support the Muslims, do ya? Well why not go to Saudi Arabia and see how much they support you over there!"

As for this argument about "it's ok as long as it's not directly inciting violence"... I was bullied horrifically for years, all psychological and always very subtly, so that no one could really be accused of anything. Just because something hides under the guise of not overtly inciting violence doesn't mean that it won't covertly.

Let me remind people of a poem that David Irving wrote specifically to sing to his daughter, which explained to her about "half-breed" children. It went:

I am a Baby Aryan
Not Jewish or Sectarian
I have no plans to marry an
Ape or Rastafarian.

Is anyone seriously saying that this man doesn't have an agenda?

Salim201 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007

If someone wants to shout abuse outside my house all his life then there is no law to stop him, as long he's not on my property. that's a strange example?

I also don't see how bullying enters into the argument, that's really between the individual engagements, if its kids then adults should get involved to resolve the abuse, if its adults then other adults should help. There's no central solution to that.

I accept that if someone is just deliberately trying to cause offence, then those cases are wrong, but there's no way to regulate that and you can't go down the cencorship route.

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

It's not a strange example at all - it's an example of how unfettered free-speech can affect anyone directly. There are many other examples, such as a drunk idiot in the street, where free-speech becomes less important than the rights of others not to have to put up with their shite, or in more damaging examples like the bullying Kate went through.

As I said in my first post in this thread, I'm in favour of these bawbags being given a platform to be heard at Oxford, but only on the basis that their insidious arguments can be observed by people who are able to observe them rather than absorb them. If they were planning an appearance at my local burgh hall I'd not have the same opinion.

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

The protest will be on just now - here's hoping there's some video footage available later on

luke · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Location: by the sea

they showed a bit on channel4 - seemed to a fair crowd there, noisy bunch Smile

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

I'm just watching ITN news and they're going to be showing a report in a few minutes of the protesters breaking into the hall... I'll post it as soon as I can