U.S. pilot who dropped Hiroshima bomb dies

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

sounds like a dry joint there Luke - I often have problems with them too... haha

Back to the story, I reckon the case of that whole setup that was created in Iraq to make it look as if they rescued a female soldier from a hospital shows that they're still more than happy to create an illusion. They even got a Hollywood movie producer in for that one - to make it look real.

luke · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Location: by the sea

i think that was jessica lynch wasn't it ... i remember that. theres a lot more than that though.

remember the statue being taken down with all the iraqi's jumping on it - that was all staged, none of them were even iraqi's! they choose to do it there because the world media was in the hotel opposite the square

there were stories from soldiers who said the whole saddam being found down a hole thing was staged

its also stuff like keeping the details of the dead quiet - in america there was some rule you're not even allowed to show the coffins. the average american has no idea how many iraqi's have died - i'll have to try find that survey. the propaganda war is just as imporatant as the actual war

pirtybirdy · 'Native New Yorker' Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Location: FL USA

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

But Pirty, you're not an average American - you know and have a fair understanding of various cultures around the world. To coin a Glaswegian phrase, 'Don't gie's it!'.

Marcella-FL · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:08 am Post subject:

I am not sure why I would have seen it but I distinctly remember seeing black and white film footage of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombs. I remember seeing it when I was quite young - 8 or 9? I remember it being disturbing and graphic but I cannot for the life of me remember WHAT it was or what it was called ... Maybe I was just in a weird family ...

Marcella-FL · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:15 am Post subject:

As far as not showing the coffins you should realize that OUR news footage is not nearly as graphic as the European news. I am not just talking out my ass here. I have seen news footage in a few European countries and noticed the difference. I used to see footage on the news and then go to the AP website to see the raw video just to get the complete picture. Context is sooooo important as well as the original soundtrack with no talking head's voice over.

Not all Americans are as clueless as you would like to believe.

Marcella-FL

[quote]i was shocked to learn that one of those planes used to kill so many people is proudly on display in america crazed

[/quote]

The Enola Gay was on display at the Smithsonian for 3 years. (95 - 9 Cool

It is a piece of history whether you agree with it's mission or not. I actually saw it while it was on display and let me assure you no one there was taking it lightly. It was one of the most somber experiences I have been a part of.

I suppose you could liken it to the bits of the Wall still on display in Berlin or the death camps. Ugly but necessary to remember the evil that man is capable of.

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

luke · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Location: by the sea

Marcella-FL · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject:

I always take survey data with a grain of salt. If you look at the number of people polled and then for the "experts" to extrapolate from there ... it is just ridiculous. Plus you have to look at WHERE they do the polling. If you poll a bunch of people in Nebraska you will get completely different results than if you polled in LA or NYC.

It's the same with scientific "studies" ... there was a report recently about some medication - I apologizing for not having the specifics right now - and the report made a sweeping statement that it did something bad - I don't remember if it was caused autism or somethng like that - and when you read the specifics of the "study" the findings were based on 3 kids out of 75 at one medical practice.

Skylace · Admin Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA

luke · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Location: by the sea

i want to make one thing clear, i'm not blaming the 'average american' or anyone for being misinformed - i'm blaming the government and media. the media serve the interests of power, its just part of the massive doctrinal system to manage the public mind ( see necessary illusions: thought control in democratic societies or edward bernays - propaganda ) - the media here isn't much better. take for example the x% of americans ( mandy posted up details of research a while back i think ) who thought saddam was linked to 9/11 and bin laden/al qaeda - i don't blame them for that, i blame the government and media. that these studies keep showing americans way underestimate the deaths of iraqi's - i don't blame them for that - i blame the government and media. peoples understanding of things can only be as good as their sources of information - and like i said, the media serve the interests of power - its not really a surprise that they downplay stuff like this, its exactly how chomsky and hermans propaganda model ( from manufacturing consent ) predicts it'll be treated

i mean, take the latest study from orb on iraqi deaths - thats not been mentioned in our media, the bbc, channel4, the independent etc - they all know about it, they just won't cover it. the lancet study is hardly mentioned - they all prefer the lower ibc figures. when the lancet figure is rarely mentioned, its always called 'controversial' or some such - even though documents released from the government under the freedom of information act showed that the government said 'the survey methodology used here cannot be rubbished, it is a tried and tested way of measuring mortality in conflict zones ... the methodology has been used in other conflict situations, notably the Democratic republic of Congo' and was 'close to best practice'

i'll have to try and find the surveys for you, i get them all from the medialens board, but after 10 pages everything gets deleted - but someone there will remember them or have links/blogs etc about them all. what i do know of one of them done by the associated press/ipsos ( at www.ap-ipsosresults.com - but you have to pay to view it, but like i say - someone on medialens will have it ), it was done with over 1000 people, i don't know where they were or how they were picked - but from that the average came out at 9890 iraqi's killed since the invasion. 9890?!

just out of interest, what do people here think the number is? have you noticed different numbers from different media outlets? whats the dominant one stuck in your mind? has there been much of an attempt to explain the different surveys?

Marcella-FL · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject:

Last I remember paying attention it was about 500 a day ... so close to 700,000? Am I close? Do I get a cookie? If I recall it right - the US led coalition forces were "responsible" for less than 40% of those ... 30-ish% maybe? BUT I also recall that reports of morgue totals do not match THAT total...

faceless · admin Joined: 25 Apr 2006

Coalition forces are directly responsible for all of those deaths. If they hadn't invaded (on a pack of lies) this situation wouldn't be happening and the real bastard of it is that they knew this would happen from day one.

Marcella-FL · Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:

you know face ... after I posted this I went and "googled" my listed facts and was thinking the same thing. I found something on wiki about the lancet report and it stated 39% coalition forces, anti-occupations forces (9%), crime (36%) and unknown agents (11%). SO yeah , they all appear related to the US stomping in there ...

here's my reference, Sir ...

CLICK