| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Nazi Pictures from Auschwitz |
 |
|
|
|
I don't quite understand the big fuss about this. I guess people expected the Auschwitz guards to eat little children during their time-off!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| I'd say the fuss is about how callous/evil they were and yet still gave off the pretence of being normal human beings. They were allowed/chose to believe that it was just a job... that's pretty mental. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| The thing is though Adolf Hitler, the head of this evil has been seen on many occasions in his mountain retreat listening to classical music. I don't understand that a fuss is being made about other Nazis, which in essence are seen relaxing after 'work' - I for instance did not expect them to do anything different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| faceless wrote: | | I'd say the fuss is about how callous/evil they were and yet still gave off the pretence of being normal human beings. They were allowed/chose to believe that it was just a job... that's pretty mental. |
a bit like the current 'coalition of the willing', i mean those peeps doing all the torturing at abu ghraib and places are apparently human beings as well ... war messes the mind  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| luke wrote: | | faceless wrote: | | I'd say the fuss is about how callous/evil they were and yet still gave off the pretence of being normal human beings. They were allowed/chose to believe that it was just a job... that's pretty mental. |
a bit like the current 'coalition of the willing', i mean those peeps doing all the torturing at abu ghraib and places are apparently human beings as well ... war messes the mind |
Fully agree with you Luke! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| I too am not surprised by the existence of such an album showing such care-free times. In order to be a "good soldier" you MUST be able to compartmentalize good and bad. I don't think I could do it - I am always amazed by people who can (I think of military snipers - their job is to shoot to kill but they have to go on afterwards.) I think more telling would be pictures taken of them while doing their "jobs" ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| The German shaking hands with the dog reminded me of a video I saw today in the GG thread (political music videos) where a US soldier in military gear was stroking a cat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SpursFan1902
Pitch Queen
Joined: 24 May 2007
Location: Sunshine State
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| The human psyche is a baffling thing, it does what it has to to survive. I think the only way you could get thru job like that..not only is it abhorant, but you have no way around it (can you imagine what would happen to you if you said no to the Third Reich??)...would be to somehow balance it out with your down time, you know, really work hard at having a good time outside of work to push away the memory of what you had done during the day. I personally would probably be some sort of alcoholic or something. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| SpursFan1902 wrote: | | can you imagine what would happen to you if you said no to the Third Reich?? |
Personally I'm not the type to kill or torture people because I'm not a coward like these people who saw self-presevation as more important. That's even considering that these particular bastards were forced into their savage behaviour - which I don't believe they were.
I'd probably have been hung as a traitor and dropped while calling them all the names under the sun... as I'm sure many thousands of genuine people did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| SpursFan1902 wrote: | | can you imagine what would happen to you if you said no to the Third Reich |
Probably the same as soldiers who said no to tactics used in the Iraq war. Straight to Jail and family disgrace. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| faceless wrote: | | SpursFan1902 wrote: | | can you imagine what would happen to you if you said no to the Third Reich?? |
Personally I'm not the type to kill or torture people because I'm not a coward like these people who saw self-presevation as more important. That's even considering that these particular bastards were forced into their savage behaviour - which I don't believe they were. |
All SS personnel were selected on the principles of racial purity and unconditional loyalty to the Nazi Party. Don't think they were forced and I am certain they held their dogs in higher regard than the prisoners.
Here is an interesting snippet from a former SS offeicer captured in Argentina and brought to trial. I think it captures their mental state and motivation well:
| Quote: | | Notably, Argentinian citizen and water company worker Ricardo Klement was discovered to be Adolf Eichmann in the 1950s ...He was captured by the Israeli Secret Service, the Mossad, in a suburb of Buenos Aires on May 11, 1960, and tried in Jerusalem on April 11, 1961, where he explicitly declared that he had abdicated his conscience in order to follow the Führerprinzip (the 'leader principle' or superior orders) |
More interesting info ... "By 1944, with the concentration camps fully integrated with the Waffen-SS and under the control of the WVHA, a standard practice developed to rotate SS members in and out of the camps, based on manpower needs and also to give assignments to wounded Waffen-SS officers and soldiers who could no longer serve in front-line combat duties. This rotation of personnel is the main argument that nearly the entire SS knew of the concentration camps, and what actions were committed within, making the entire organization liable for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
...
In 1946, it was revealed to the surprise of many that the SS and Police Courts had never had to deal with a case involving the legality of the Holocaust. Since many SS personnel claimed no culpability for war crimes, using the defense that they were "only following orders", the question was raised as to whether anyone in the SS had ever been charged, tried, or executed for refusing to carry out an illegal order.
It was then discovered that any such case, brought before an SS and Police Court, would have had to have established which order had been disobeyed and what kind of order it was. Years after the war, SS Judges have themselves admitted that the mass murder of Jews was against German Jurisprudence and that no SS member could be held accountable for refusing to obey orders which were supposed to be illegal.
In all such cases, therefore, any SS member who refused to commit atrocities was simply transferred to another branch of the SS or sent to front lines to serve in the Waffen-SS. The review of the SS records conducted between 1946 and 1950 revealed no evidence of any SS member ever receiving a death penalty for refusing to carry out illegal orders associated with the Holocaust crimes."
SO in a long drawn out path to the original question ... evidently if you were SS and said no you'd get transferred. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Marcella-FL wrote: | | SO in a long drawn out path to the original question ... evidently if you were SS and said no you'd get transferred. |
But being transferred to the front line meant more or less the death sentence - especially in Russia. However, most people who had joined the SS I am sure had been so indoctrinated that they would never turn their back on the cause anyways! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SpursFan1902
Pitch Queen
Joined: 24 May 2007
Location: Sunshine State
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
I didn't really mean the people in the picture, because as stated by the time you got the point that you were SS, you had been in for a while, but there had to be a point at which the Third Reich brought you into the fold and it was at that point that I was refering. Military duty was not an option, it was mandatory and they didn't get to ask "Well, will I be torturing anyone, because that really isn't me. It's not what I want to do".
I am sure that there were some that fled or died rather than serve, but I think that self preservation is pretty high on everyone's list and I am sure that there were plenty in the Third Reich who were doing it to save their own skins. When it comes right down to it, if it is a question of you (the general you) or me that dies, my choice is going to be you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| SpursFan1902 wrote: | I didn't really mean the people in the picture, because as stated by the time you got the point that you were SS, you had been in for a while, but there had to be a point at which the Third Reich brought you into the fold and it was at that point that I was refering. Military duty was not an option, it was mandatory and they didn't get to ask "Well, will I be torturing anyone, because that really isn't me. It's not what I want to do".
I am sure that there were some that fled or died rather than serve, but I think that self preservation is pretty high on everyone's list and I am sure that there were plenty in the Third Reich who were doing it to save their own skins. When it comes right down to it, if it is a question of you (the general you) or me that dies, my choice is going to be you. |
The concentration camps were only run by SS or waffen-SS members. I think it is often forgotten that most German soldiers fighting in WW II were just ordinary people, soldiers defending their country. It was only the SS or the waffen-SS and those affiliations which committed the war crimes (that's my understanding anyway  ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
