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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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 Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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you probably heard on the news yesterday the head of columbia uni, lee bollinger, introduce ahmadinejad as a 'petty and cruel dictator'. strong stuff - so how did he introduce a real dictator? you know, one that actually is a dictator ( instead of the democratically elected president of iran ) one that came to power in a military coup? one that leads a regime thats been brutally suppressing its people?
well ...
“President Musharraf is a leader of global importance and his contribution to Pakistan’s economic turnaround and the international fight against terror remain remarkable - it is rare that we have a leader of his stature at campus,” said Lee C Bollinger, the President of Columbia University."
you couldn't make it up! the worlds all backwards! 
interesting article here on the hysteria surrounding the visit and the ongoing drum roll to war ...
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I remember once years back that an old tramp started talking to me, saying that 'The world's on its head wee man'. I never understood what he meant for years, but this type of shit is what he meant I'm sure. |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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He is a mad bugger, that guy.
"Why do you execute gay people?"
"We don't have homosexuals in Iran"
Yea, maybe that's because they're all in the effin' closet, considering that if they "come out", they'll be strung up!!
I have to say, as much as I am absolutely against military action of any kind against Iran, Ahmadinejad is a lunatic, homophobic mysogynist. His eyes are just as close together as Bush's. Thank fuck most people in Iran also consider him an idiot. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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whats he done or said that makes you think of him as a misogynist?
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| luke wrote: | | whats he done or said that makes you think of him as a misogynist? |
I assume you're being sarcastic or something?
Maybe the fact that he presides over a country in which a woman's testimony in a court of law is worth exactly half that of a man's, and raped women are stoned to death for "crimes against chastity".
That sort of thing is rife all over the Middle East, of course, not just Iran - which is where the hypocricy of Western aggression becomes most evident when one realises there are worse places than Iran, yet America seems to stroll past them, looking the other way and whistling.
Don't tell me you actually like Ahmadinejad, Luke! It's one thing to adamantly disagree with Western interference with Iran, and a whole different thing to pretend that he isn't a mad fool. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | | I assume you're being sarcastic or something? |
sorry, no, i'm just a bit simple  its just i hadn't heard anything about him that made me think like you do, in fact the opposite - i thought he had tried to allow woman into football matches, but he was overruled by the religious leaders
| nekokate wrote: | Maybe the fact that he presides over a country in which a woman's testimony in a court of law is worth exactly half that of a man's, and raped women are stoned to death for "crimes against chastity".
That sort of thing is rife all over the Middle East, of course, not just Iran - which is where the hypocricy of Western aggression becomes most evident when one realises there are worse places than Iran, yet America seems to stroll past them, looking the other way and whistling. |
thanks 
but is any of this directly down to ahmadinejad? you could say maybe the history and culture of iran and certain other middle eastern countrys is misogynistic - but is there anything hes personally done or said that makes you think he hates woman?
| nekokate wrote: | | Don't tell me you actually like Ahmadinejad, Luke! It's one thing to adamantly disagree with Western interference with Iran, and a whole different thing to pretend that he isn't a mad fool. |
me, like ahmadinejad?!
where have you got that idea from? 
i don't like or dislike him really, i don't know much about him to be fair, its just like i said - i'd not heard anything that made me think he hated women. |
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popinjay
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | | luke wrote: | | whats he done or said that makes you think of him as a misogynist? |
I assume you're being sarcastic or something?
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On 24 April 2006, Ahmadinejad announced that a ruling which prevented women from watching men playing sports in stadiums would soon be reversed.[53] A state television announcer reported that Ahmadinejad "ordered the head of the sports organization to provide facilities in the stadiums to watch national matches." Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying: "The best stands should be allocated to women and families in the stadiums in which national and important matches are being held." Two days earlier, Ahmadinejad had objected to punishment of women appearing in stadiums without proper hijab. His remarks angered some supporters.[54] Soon after his remarks, several of the highest-ranking clerics and marjas including, Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi and Grand Ayatollahs Nouri Hamedani, Safi Golpaygani, Makarem Shirazi, Fazel Lankarani and Tabrizi announced their objection to his decision, urgently calling for cancellation of the order. In Qom, many clerics demonstrated against the president's letter.[55] Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei reversed the decision,[56] and at least 60,000 mullahs in sharia courts, ranging from grassroots levels to the national level, expressed concerns. A Shi'ite news agency quoted one of Ahmadinejad's advisors saying that the President's statement about the attendance of women in stadium was a political measure to defend the government against a US-led conspiracy. According to these reports, Ahmadinejad's government believed that the attendance of women in stadiums was against Sharia and therefore had to be banned, contrary to the earlier letter.[57]
Some conservatives in Iran have been angered by a perceived deterioration in obedience to the republic's female Islamic dress code. Conservative MP Rafat Bayat has blamed Ahmadinejad for this, saying that observance of the required hijab has declined because Ahmadinejad is "not that strict on this issue".[58] Ahmadinejad has been also accused of indecency by people close to Rafsanjani,[59] after he publicly kissed the hand of a woman who used to be his school teacher.[60]
In April 2007, the Tehran police which is under supervision of Khamenei, began a crackdown on women with "improper hijab". This resulted in harsh criticism from associates of President Ahmadinejad, who have noted the injudiciousness of this action and the negative impact the issue will have on the youth.[61] It was further reported that the idea was proposed by Combatant Clergy Association, in which Akbar Rafsanjani -the main opponent of President Ahmadinejad- is a leading member. President Ahmadinejad has summoned the head of the police and has asked him to clarify the reasons for the act.[62] |
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Salim201
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahmadinejad and Chavez are the sole leaders upholding a resistance to the empire! Have some more respect Kate, and incidentally I don't think he answered the question about "sexual preference" seriously, it was obvious he was being quite flippand at that point, he didn't take many of the questions seriously because many of them were outright ridiculous! |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | Maybe the fact that he presides over a country in which a woman's testimony in a court of law is worth exactly half that of a man's,
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Kate .. can you substantiate this ? What does half a testimony mean in the case of a witness saying "x" killed "y" ? Does it mean if a woman saw it, then it is manslaughter, but if a man saw it then it is 1st degree murder ?
Kate I think you may be confusing things. Also, in Muslim cultures, the women tend to be cared for and protected, and if some in the West mis-interpret that as "oppression", then they should look at their own society of broken marriages and families before casting stones at others.
| nekokate wrote: |
raped women are stoned to death for "crimes against chastity".
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I now wonder whether you have been watching too much MEMRI
| nekokate wrote: |
That sort of thing is rife all over the Middle East, of course, not just Iran |
Is that why a huge number of people are leaving Britain and heading to the likes of Dubai ?
| nekokate wrote: |
and a whole different thing to pretend that he isn't a mad fool. |
Wake up Kate .. In any case, he isn't the leader of Iran .. the power of Iran is with the Religious leader |
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archie_f
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nekokate writes : "that sort of thing is rife all over the Middle East.." You don't think maybe that's because the Middle East, being predominantly Muslim, adheres to Shariah Law, based on the teachings of the Quran and the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad ;and according to interpretations by the muslim clergy such punishments and treatment are valid. After all, whether we like it or not, their decisions are based on God's Laws and not on Man's, and so is accepted by the believers.
Also, the Bible is replete with examples of similar justified "divine" retributions for certain crimes. Almost all Christian Fundamentalists support e.g. the death penalty -with biblical justification by them. The only difference as far as I can see,is that they do it "humanely" i.e. by lethal injection and conveniently out of sight so as not to offend peoples' delicate sensitivities. The result is still death no matter the manner thereof.
As for your charge of misogeny, isn't the ongoing debate about women clergy in the main Christian Churches the same thing? Isn't homophobia also a problem in Christianity
and presented in the vilest terms?
"Why cant we just all get along?" Rodney King |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Salim201 wrote: | | Ahmadinejad and Chavez are the sole leaders upholding a resistance to the empire! |
cough cough ...
don't forget evo and fidel!
thanks for the info popinjay, i don't really follow whats going on in iran politically but that backs up the bits and pieces i've read |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. A day is a long time in the Couch, huh? I've only just got round to reading all these replies.
I'm surprised that I'm being lambasted for daring to have my own opinion here. Salim telling me "Have some more respect" and Mandy with the classic retort, "Wake up".
| Salim201 wrote: | | Ahmadinejad and Chavez are the sole leaders upholding a resistance to the empire! |
Actually, Ahmadinejad is the president of Iran, not its leader. Mandy herself pulled me up on this immediately after she invited me to wake up, when she said "In any case, he isn't the leader of Iran". Perhaps this is a three-way disagreement now?
| Salim201 wrote: | | ... incidentally I don't think he answered the question about "sexual preference" seriously, it was obvious he was being quite flippand at that point, he didn't take many of the questions seriously |
This is exactly why I've called him a fool, and stand by it. He was presented with the perfect chance - in an American university, no less! - to clarify his stances on several very divisive issues and he chose, assuming your estimation of him is accurate, to be flippant rather than sincere, which has only given ammunition to the NeoCon, war-mongering machine.
Imagine if, instead of flippantly saying "We don't have homosexuals in Iran" (a statement that is, by definition, utterly false and ridiculous), he had taken that opportunity to declare that he has no problem with gays, lesbians or transsexuals. Imagine the positive stir that would have caused! The likes of Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh would have been robbed of most of their material in a single vocal flourish!
I'm going to move on to another point now: The negative replies I have received because I pointed out that the legal and moral injustices that go on in Iran also go on all across the Arab world (yes, I know Iran is not an Arab country).
George Galloway himself makes my exact point, and makes it often. I don't think I am being particularly controversial in the context of this forum. The laws in place all across the Arab world are most certainly unfair in parts, are most certainly immoral in parts, and are most certainly both tinted with varying shades of homophobia and misogyny. For instance, the death penalty is immoral in my opinion. I don't care if it is imposed for religious reasons or not. And neither does George: he is absolutely against it and never tires from saying this. So how is my condemnation of the Iranian regime, over which Ahmadinejad presides, wrong?
Returning to "flippancy", and adding to it disingenuity, let's examine Mandy's reply to my correct statement that injustices in law are part of most Middle Eastern countries, not just Iran, where she says:
| Mandy wrote: | | "Is that why a huge number of people are leaving Britain and heading to the likes of Dubai ?" |
No. And I can qualify this denial because I actually know someone personally who is planning to go work and live in Dubai.
People are leaving Britain to go work in the UAE because it is a fabulous place to emigrate to - full of high-level I.T. and telecommunications opportunities, and there are many areas (ghettos, if you like; except occupied by wealthy Westerners) in which whey can reside undisturbed in luxury pre-fab apartments. It is also a tax haven, which attracts many millionaires, including the snooker player Peter Ebdon, for instance, who lives there with his family.
I also know of a family who moved to the island of Bahrain for a very similar reason, but don't pretend that career emigration to Middle Eastern countries which have special uber-ghettos for Western yuppies has anything to do with an attraction to the situation of real, working class Arabs or Persians. I'm on their side.
And please withdraw that thing about me having watched "too much MEMRI" - that is a pathetic jibe. I spit on MEMRI, and you know I do.
As for "archie_f", your post is so illiterate, jumbled, and filled with false assumptions about my own religion that I just can't be arsed. |
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popinjay
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | | So how is my condemnation of the Iranian regime, over which Ahmadinejad presides, wrong? |
I just want you to be factually correct. I agree with you on your homosexual point very strongly, however your mysoginist point is way off base. By Middle Eastern and Iranian standards, Ahmadinejad is very liberal on women's rights issues. |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| popinjay wrote: | | By Middle Eastern and Iranian standards, Ahmadinejad is very liberal on women's rights issues. |
Yes. But by Middle Eastern and Iranian standards, Michael Winner is very liberal on women's rights issues. And he is a complete sexist twat.
I don't compare instance A to instance B, and become an apologist for A because B is worse, pretending that I have an argument. I just call a spade a spade, regardless of the partisan benefits.
I know that the people we hate are planning an attack on Iran - and I am sick to the stomach about it with worry - but I will not compromise my own opinions and pretend that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is anything other than a loose-cannon nut-job. I mean, look at the polls, he's not even popular in his own country. Regular Iranians are even beginning to wonder if he is speaking Farsi or just Farce. |
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