Global warming? Look at the numbers

[Mandy]

For the record, I believe there is warming of the earth, but I don't believe that what we are asked to change will have any significant impact on the weather. If you believe the "carbon footprint" is important, then ask what the "carbon footprint" of global wars and the dictatorships which the neo-cons support.

Governments embrace "global warming" because it allows them to tax and control even more than they do already. I am not anti-taxation, but they are taxing the low-earners proportionally more than the highest earners.

[faceless]

Daily pollution in Beijing.

Can you honestly say that all that shit in the air isn't doing harm? If you bruise an apple the whole apple rots from that point. Global Warming, or whatever the phrase has become these days, is just a symptom of that.

[Mandy]

Funny thing is that the smog of the early 1900's cooled the planet (I think it interacted with the clouds and reflected the sun's rays).

Of-course that shit does harm (live in the center of a city and your lungs get full of emissions from cars). But should China be forced to slow down when it has a LONG way to go to catch up from the emissions of the west (especially USA) ?

We should be aiming for efficiency (e.g. low energy light bulbs), but we shouldn't let the governments use this as another stick keep their populations under control (and highly taxed, whilst letting the high non-domiciled earners laugh at the system)

[faceless]

I don't see it on political grounds at all.

[Brown Sauce]

and they're all goin' whoopee 'cause global warming has made it economically possible to exploit what's under the poles ... very north and very south, not central europe ... mmmm let's dig up more of the shit and burn it ...

after 911 the us stopped all air traffic for two or three days, the subsequent lack of pollution from these aircraft had an effect on the local climate, and is maybe a better measure of what's really going on ...

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/07/contrails.climate/

[Mandy]

Imagine all planes were fitted with additional "contrail" makers (or cloud seeders) [possibly by adding additives to the fuel], that would thus "cool" the planet. Imagine the spin "Travel round the world for a holiday, and help stave off global warming, making the world cooler during the day and warmer at night."


p.s. Some conspiracy theorists say they are already adding contrail additives to airline fuels, but that's another topic/forum.

[Brown Sauce]

i don't think they have to, just put more easy flybe ryan air berlin in the sky and we'll all be sound.

[Mandy]

The following article does not necessarily reflect my views, but though it might be of interest :

[Brown Sauce]

right at the end ..

[Mandy]

The danger is that the corporations push the items which is of more profit to them (anyone surprised?) e.g. biofuels, but not reforestation :

Biofuels also pushes up the demand, and thus the price of land and food (yep, landowners win on both counts)

[Brown Sauce]

not only that, but they use this magical "bio" word, which has come to be understood as environmentally friendly. this stuff for sure ain't. imagine the amount of pesticides being put on this, and whilst the EU have measures in place to deal with it, the rest may not have. screw up the air or screw up the rivers, the choice is yours.

and actually the largest pro pesticide lobby in the eu are the french farmers ....

[luke]

[Brown Sauce]

seems to me that the only consensus, is that the right wing types think that it's all ok to keep on driving their 300 hp suvs, hoping that that next flight will be even cheaper than the last one, and if it not they'll look for a scientist to back 'em up, doesn't matter who or how qualified, employed or unemployed, just as long as he or she has a gob, and the rest of us are coming around to consider the push bike.

is it really any wonder that this debate has gone down the path of right and left, capitalist interests, social interests?

[Mandy]

The issue is that billions is being raised in taxes, and the money seems to be squandered on wars (not on the environment). The rub salt into the wound, the wars are making the environment worse.

In addition, the poor are being hit harder in proportionate terms than the rich .. i.e. the opposite of a fair tax system. By way of example, the tax on airlines is a fixed amount, which can double (or more) the cost of a cheap fare, but hardly impacts a top class ticket.

[Brown Sauce]

I'm pretty sure that most govts. will use whatever tool comes along to fund whatever it is that they're up to, and in all likelyhood we won't like it whatever it is. That these taxes hit the poor more than the wealthy in my opinion has more to do with the issue of what exactly is "Noo Labor" than doing anything to try to solve the problem.

for me the green issue is not to let the greedy simple minded neo prats take the lead and persuade folk that it's all ok, drive your suv as much as you like 'cause it's the Sun what did it, when recent research has shown that it ain't the Sun what did it at all. If it was down to the Sun, the earth would be cooling. Global warming is mirroring our complete disregard for the environment. For me that's what's important to get across.