What would you do?

[faceless]

'My shame at watching Tube thug beat passenger' admits Jeremy Vine
By NEIL SEARS
21st August 2007
www.dailymail.co.uk


Jeremy Vine has told of his shame at failing to step in when he saw a man being beaten up on the London Underground. The Radio 2 presenter confessed that he was "very unhappy" that he did nothing as the assailant punched his victim to the carriage floor. He said he will intervene "with unmitigated ferocity" if he finds himself in a similar situation again. Mr Vine, 42, who is 6ft 3in, had earlier merely tut-tutted as the attacker sexually harassed a female passenger.

As a former correspondent in South Africa he is no stranger to reporting on violent crime. And in February he was given some first-hand advice on how to react when confronted with anti-social behaviour. Police minister Tony McNulty controversially told him in an interview that witnesses to violent crime should distract assailants by "jumping up and down".

Mr Vine, a father of two who also presents Panorama on BBC1, now clearly believes that direct intervention, not distraction, is the only language thugs understand. Writing in the BBC's online magazine, he said: "I was sitting in a Tube carriage next to an attractive young woman. There was a guy sitting opposite me, who was kind of Neanderthal. He had obviously taken an interest in this woman. 'Hello darlin', give us a smile! Come on darlin'! It's not that bad is it?" Then he leant forwards and started tapping her knee. And she kind of shrank back into her seat. I kind of 'tutted' and lifted my magazine even higher.

"Anyway, all the passengers on the Tube were aware of this. The Tube stops. The thug walks off down the platform, we're all quite happy he's gone. Another passenger flips him a V-sign. And then the disaster happens - the doors reopen. The thug runs back in. He's six foot three, his muscles are so big they're flexing against the Tube glass and he just starts beating seven bells out of this fellow.

"And actually when you see physical violence or are on the receiving end of it, it's very, very nasty. His fist went into the side of his head, blood came out, another fist, the guy goes down on the carriage floor, and the thug walks off very happy with himself. And I did nothing. The carriage was pretty full. But none of us did anything. It was terrible. It wasn't fight or flight, it was fight or sit there and watch. And I chose to sit there and watch. And I've replayed it many many times. I'm very unhappy that I did that, and I now have sort of resolved that if I see a similar kind of situation where I see someone being attacked like that, I will intervene with unmitigated ferocity.

"In some horrible way, I guess the fact that nobody did anything to stop this guy gives him permission to do that. That's the problem. He knows that he's on a train carriage, he's giving us a display of strength and the only way we can get involved is if we better him. I was sitting there and I had a biography of Oscar Wilde and it's about 700 pages. I reckoned that would have made a serious dent in his skull and also that it would have been a classy way to bring this guy down to the Tube floor, but of course as I have all these thoughts it's already too late. In fact, the moment you think about it, it's too late."

Mr Vine, who lives in West London, added that he did intervene on a bus recently, telling an unruly passenger who was defying the driver: "The bus driver is a public servant and this is his bus. Behave yourself." He went on: "As soon as I said that everybody else on the bus flew at the guy. It was only because he caught my eye and I said something that everyone joined in."

Online responses to Mr Vine's piece have been generally positive, although some contributors said he could be beaten or prosecuted for intervening.

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What would you do? Being a big guy myself I'd have stepped - or at least made sure the guy was captured after if I wasn't able. It's something that would be pretty unlikely to happen in Glasgow to be honest though - people here (notably older folk) aren't shy about telling people to 'turn it in!' (calm down) and it really does have an effect.

[eefanincan]

I'd like to think I'd at least say something to the guy in an attempt to distract him. But I can understand why some don't --- with the fear of guns, etc. Still, there have to be some good people out there.

[maycm]

Quite a dilemma - based on the fact that I'm not the most muscular of fellows, I'm not certain I could have done much myself, and like it or not, I suspect most of us would say self preservation likely takes precedence, even though that is not "the right thing to do" . That said I would likely have encouraged my fellow passengers to join together to rescue the guy, or alert someone through the emergency stop system or cell phone if possible.

[Lostinthestates]

I am actually really shocked about this article! I think it is very hypocritical saying well the next time I will do something! I also can't believe the responses to his piece were fairly positive! I have stepped in on many occasions when I have seen violence happening - and that's usually without thinking - it's more of a reflex. I did on occasions get bruises and cuts while trying to help others, but I will always keep on stepping in when I see people being bullied or attacked! After all not doing anything when unjust things happen, was the main thing held up against the average German during the Third Reich!

[Marcella-FL]

ooo ... I am a mouthy little thing and I have had a few run-ins when I stepped in. Many times just standing up to these thugs gets them to push off.

Having been on the receiving end of unwanted attention (as the original victim was) I have found that standing up to these low lifes usually precipitates them skulking off with tail firmly between legs. I rmember when I was a shop girl I actually had a guy come in and grab my ass once. We were the ONLY ones in the store. I turned around and said "WTF was that?!" he kind of did the raised eyebrow "hey baby" thing to which I cussed a blue streak at him while holding the nearest weapon I could grab (a stapler - which I used to hurl staples at him) until he got out of my store!

Bottom line - if the wanker of a writer would have stood up when he was harassing the female passenger it may have ended there. What would he have done if she got off the train and the thug followed her? Would he have let THAT happen or would he have taken enough time out of his busy self absorbed schedule to make sure nothing further took place?

[alan1254]

If you cant fight don't, there is no shame if you are not that way inclined ,personaly I have no problem giving a guy like that a serious good hiding, people always say violence never solved anything , that is not always true sometimes its a sure fire cure

[11antoniacourt]

Well, I'm not saying Mr. Sears is chicken shit, but I must agree with lostinthestates. I too am kind of surprised that his purging himself of his obvious guilt was responded to so positively by the public. I would have asked the poor woman being harassed if she's okay, or offered to switch seats with her, rather than lifting the magazine higher. On the other hand, being a chicken shit myself, I would have at least waited till the doors of the train slammed shut before I gave the psycho the finger and or V.

[6ULDV8]

As you may have read in another thread:
I almost lost a leg (due to being stabbed) when breaking up a fight...

It certainly wasn't the first time I had jumped in to help somebody & certainly wasn't the last time.

I tend to asses the situation a bit better nowdays, I also use my voice a lot more... At almost 6 foot 4 inches & the ability to make myself 'Loud', I have found that shouting "Oi you little cunts, stop it now!!!!!" makes the affray stop long enough to size up the fuckers.

I'd rather diffuse the situation verbaly with some 'mental judo' but there are times when 'Hands on' is the only way.

[alan1254]

'A kind word will often get you what you want, a kind word and a colt 45 will always get you what you want ' Al Capone

[Lostinthestates]

[luke]

there was something on tv earlier, street wars or something, but on that they had footage of a fight between two guys in a kebab shop, one guy massively bigger than the other - the smaller guy took a serious beating - and not one person in this shop did anything to stop it, everyone just stood and watched in silence, it was really weird

maybe people now days are more cautious, maybe scared by stories in the media. but to watch this guy take such a beating when theres like 8 other people just stood there doing nothing is just strange, and you'd be pissed if that was you and no one did anything to help

luckily the guy got 4 years, but the whole thing could have been stopped if a few people on the shop had stood up to him