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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Luke. From the same Wiki page :
Graph showing the rate per 1,000 births of congenital malformations observed at Basra University Hospital, Iraq, as reported by I. Al-Sadoon, et al., writing in the Medical Journal of Basrah University.
If the population in the region is conservatively estimated at 30 million,
and if the graph levels at 20 / 1000 birth, then in a life-time, the 30,000,000 births to replace the population, that's 600,000 congenital malformations observed at birth .. and that's without counting the population who will suffer cancers, or other problems .. i.e. only counting "congenital malformations" is the tip of the ice berg.
Is the above scientific enough ? |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | | faceless wrote: | | if the people change their attitude then the governments will follow. Not the other way round. |
Only in a true democracy with an informed population (i.e. without the huge bias of the mass media we see today. |
The majority of bias in the media I see suggests that global-warming is happening though - I can't think of an example of a recent (and respected) media-source that I've seen which states categorically that it's not a problem. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | Mandy wrote: | | faceless wrote: | | if the people change their attitude then the governments will follow. Not the other way round. |
Only in a true democracy with an informed population (i.e. without the huge bias of the mass media we see today. |
The majority of bias in the media I see suggests that global-warming is happening though - I can't think of an example of a recent (and respected) media-source that I've seen which states categorically that it's not a problem. |
I agree on that. The same mass media which brought us the "Iraq has WMDs" story has embraced man-made global warming as an urgent thing to tackle, almost at any cost. It is a subtle form of brain-washing. As Orwell said, he who controls the present (i.e. government) controls the past and the future. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | The majority of bias in the media I see suggests that global-warming is happening though - I can't think of an example of a recent (and respected) media-source that I've seen which states categorically that it's not a problem. |
but, where in the media have you seen the message that we need to cut our consumption massively? you don't - its all just pay green taxes, carbon trading, science will sort it etc ...
its like that article i posted a while back,
“The goal is clearly to save the climate — but only if capitalism can be fully preserved at the same time.” |
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Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | Thanks Luke. From the same Wiki page :
Graph showing the rate per 1,000 births of congenital malformations observed at Basra University Hospital, Iraq, as reported by I. Al-Sadoon, et al., writing in the Medical Journal of Basrah University.
If the population in the region is conservatively estimated at 30 million,
and if the graph levels at 20 / 1000 birth, then in a life-time, the 30,000,000 births to replace the population, that's 600,000 congenital malformations observed at birth .. and that's without counting the population who will suffer cancers, or other problems .. i.e. only counting "congenital malformations" is the tip of the ice berg.
Is the above scientific enough ? |
I do not see how this proves anything. The data increases from 1998 to 2000. Long after the first Gulf war and well before the second one! |
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Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| luke wrote: | | faceless wrote: | | The majority of bias in the media I see suggests that global-warming is happening though - I can't think of an example of a recent (and respected) media-source that I've seen which states categorically that it's not a problem. |
but, where in the media have you seen the message that we need to cut our consumption massively? you don't - its all just pay green taxes, carbon trading, science will sort it etc ...
its like that article i posted a while back,
“The goal is clearly to save the climate — but only if capitalism can be fully preserved at the same time.” |
This whole thread started with people saying that global warming is a scam and deaths through uranium depleted weapons were much more severe. And I strongly contest that. I do agree governments aren't doing enough - but at least we are heading in the right direction! |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Lostinthestates wrote: | | This whole thread started with people saying that global warming is a scam and deaths through uranium depleted weapons were much more severe. And I strongly contest that. I do agree governments aren't doing enough - but at least we are heading in the right direction! |
you've mistaken me, i think global warming has and will always happen, along with global cooling - reread my posts |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Lostinthestates wrote: | | This whole thread started with people saying that .. deaths through uranium depleted weapons were much more severe [than death via global warming]. |
I didn't say the above. Global warming might kill more people in the long run, but we can't effectively control the weather, but we can control the spread of DU weaponary which could kill off a huge number of people (which may or may not be more or less than those killed by global warming, and/or global cooling).
p.s. Like Luke, I also believe global warming will happen |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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Lostinthestates
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Bethlehem, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I am sorry if I misunderstood you both  I do think we can affect global warming by being more prudent in our use of natural resources (that does include governments) and I think we can soften the blow. Being a scientist I do believe science is the answer (to some degree). But at the same time I fully agree that there is no need for DU weapons. I just think it generally is not a competition or a 'one-or-the-other' choice. I think we need to tackle all those issues |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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i can't remember how we've got to du from global warming anyway  and this thread started of with a song
another link though http://uruknet.info/?p=m33632&hd=&size=1&l=e 
but i what i think we've hi lighted in this thread, that both with du, and cutting consumption - they are absent from the mainstream ... 
there was a thread about all this a while back, and i think i said in there that global warming is already happening, rainy seasons have been changing all the over the place - but we don't really care about those people now ... |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
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i've posted this and the last one here because they relate to where this thread veered off to
maybe the martians will have to cut back on carbon emissions as well |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| If there is planetary warming on these other planets then that's interesting - but none of them have atmospheres like ours, do they? There's a fine balance which allows our ecosystem to survive these fluctuations but because of our excessive emissions that balance is being tipped. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | If there is planetary warming on these other planets then that's interesting |
yeah thats what i thought, theres some who say that global warming is down to increased solar activity, and this would kinda go along with that - or at least that its a contributing factor. be interesting to know if theres been any other changes on other planets in our solar system.
| faceless wrote: | | but none of them have atmospheres like ours, do they? |
no, but wouldn't it be cool if they did i reckon somewhere out there in the universe is other planets supporting life, i don't reckon we'll ever find it though because of the distances involved - although there was a patent passed a while back for some crazy new type of space travel, i'll have to look out the link - sounded like something off star trek!
| faceless wrote: | | There's a fine balance which allows our ecosystem to survive these fluctuations but because of our excessive emissions that balance is being tipped. |
yeah and i like i said i'm all for massively cutting back on consumption, which will lead to a huge decline in emissions, pollution and plundering of the earths resources - but i don't think thats really what power has in mind - cut consumption, cut profits?! the day i hear from the media we need to stop buying crap, i'll wear a kilt we need to start living simpler, more sustainable lifestyles, we need to start developing and adapting our way of living to live within the changes of the planet, because even if you could cut any or all man made changes to the climate, its still going to change - its going to get hotter, and its going to get colder again sometime.
but like i said, we don't really care about those affected by changes now - maybe we're only caring now because it'll be on our doorstep as well as third world countrys. i mean look at the water shortages around the globe - can you imagine anything remotely on that scale happening here?! us collecting water from wells, drinking water from ponds?! the average african uses as much water in a day for everything, drinking, washing, cooking etc as we use each time we flush the toilet.
maybe in 20,000 years time they will be banging on about we gotta stop the ice age coming
i wonder if theres any figures on carbon emissions for the military ... from the manufacture to the using of it all, bullets, bombs, tanks, fighter planes etc |
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