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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Bullying, anti-social behaviour, theft .. depends where you draw the line on evil acts.
Anyway, if there is so "few" evil acts by children then my view is academic. My view is only if you believe there is too much evil, criminal and/or anti-social behaviour amongst children and teenagers (and even adults). |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Aja wrote: | | GG Fan ...what religion are you ? |
I believe in one god. Isn't that what George himself believes ? |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | I'd say that to use fear/intimidation is to pretty much admit defeat. |
Totally agree.
And whenever you help children or people with counseling the last thing you use is fear. Instead you work on building trust and work on building coping skills. It's bases on respect and understanding. If I used fear to help people in counseling I would be a terrible counselor. |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Aja wrote: | | GG Fan ...what religion are you ? |
I believe in one god. Isn't that what George himself believes ? |
What does George have to do with it?  |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Not that the Simpsons reflects real-life, but does anyone remember an episode when Bart really crossed the line and he really feared Homer would make the punishment stick this time, and Bart was saying to himself he will be good from now on ... then Homer relented and let Bart off the punishment, so Bart said to himself he will carry on being bad.
Whether above is a reflection of children now is one issue. What is undeniable is that the above episode was seen by children round the world. What message did they take from it ? |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | Not that the Simpsons reflects real-life, but does anyone remember an episode when Bart really crossed the line and he really feared Homer would make the punishment stick this time, and Bart was saying to himself he will be good from now on ... then Homer relented and let Bart off the punishment, so Bart said to himself he will carry on being bad.
Whether above is a reflection of children now is one issue. What is undeniable is that the above episode was seen by children round the world. What message did they take from it ? |
He wasn't scared of Homer, instead they were actually going to enforce rules. Structure and consistency are very important to raising children, not fear. Punishments need to be in place yes, but so do rewards. (Homer's punishment by the way was sending him to bed without supper and also Bart is being raised in a family where at least one parent is telling him to be scared of God. Marge goes to church every Sunday and takes the kids with her).
I never feared my parents. But I knew there were rules and boundaries to follow because they were consistent with their actions and behaviors. I knew what was expected of me and what would happen if I didn't behave. I was never spanked as a child. I've never been in trouble with the law, I did well in school and I have respect for other people because I was show how to behave that way.
If you're going to use a TV show as an example let's take the extreme example of the book "Carrie" by Stephen King. She was raised to fear God and was punished and look what happened there. |
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Aja
Reggae Ambassador
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Location: Lost Londoner ..Nr Philly. PA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Aja wrote: | | GG Fan ...what religion are you ? |
I believe in one god. Isn't that what George himself believes ? |
?????? I asked You a question about You ..Not about George ...... |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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I don't think religion has anything to do with this story. Religion has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with morality. I am an atheist/agnostic, but I would never knowingly harm another human or animal, and I do my best to help as many people as I possibly can.
What dismays me is when I hear people in the media say things like "If only good Christian values such as kindness to others, and goodwill to all men were instilled in children more..."
I think to myself "Hang on, those are not Christian values, or Jewish values, or Muslim values, or Buddhist values, they are simply Not Being A Completely Heartless Bastard values!
When I meet someone and decide not to strangle them with a piece of wire, it's not because I live in fear that a mystical deity will punish me, it's because I am not a mentally ill psychopath. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | | those are not Christian values, or Jewish values, or Muslim values, or Buddhist values, they are simply Not Being A Completely Heartless Bastard values! |
When I worked as a bouncer a few years back I called it the "don't be a cunt" rule. It worked on pretty much everyone from 7ft skinhead gabbaheads to 25st Nigerian reggae fans to transvestite queens on a cocaine comedown.
Confucius also taught that the man with no shoes should weep for the man with no feet - the wise old bugger. |
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Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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I don't think fear is necessary ... I have noticed that parents are too accommodating to their children. I think that kids need to know they have limits and that parents will enforce those limits.
I am SOOOOOOO tired of having to deal with children whose parents believe they are the center of the universe. There really are a bunch of nasty little brats out there ... |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Marcella-FL wrote: | I don't think fear is necessary ... I have noticed that parents are too accommodating to their children. I think that kids need to know they have limits and that parents will enforce those limits.
I am SOOOOOOO tired of having to deal with children whose parents believe they are the center of the universe. There really are a bunch of nasty little brats out there ... |
Yes, but that's not because they don't fear. I have plenty of kids that are scared shit less of their parents but they are still holy terrors. They haven't been given the limits you are speaking about. They don't have a consistent discipline or structure. What they need to have is what you are saying they need to know that there are consequences for their behavior. Plain and simple. And you can do that without fear.
Now don't get me wrong, there are certain things we want to make sure kids and adults are afraid of. I know making them scared of strangers is important, and things like that but you can have discipline, rules and structure without the presence of fear. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Skylace wrote: | | [What they need to have is what you are saying they need to know that there are consequences for their behavior. Plain and simple. |
What types of consequences do you think there should be ?
Even as adults we may be good to people since it is the right thing to do .. but underlying it is the fear that if we are nasty to people, they will be nasty back. Or if we don't collaborate, we would have a worse society .. but that still has fear as a concern.
Fear doesn't have to be fear of physical punishment, it could be monetary loss, emotional loss, loss of privileges (e.g. use of toys), or in Bart's case above, going to bed without dinner .. but that is still fear ..
I wonder if the word "fear" is politically incorrect, i.e. you can call it consequences, e.g. loss of toys, but is it politically incorrect to say children should "fear" these consequences. |
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janbo1960
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Lawyers struggle to explain teenage murder motives
Lawyers for two teenagers have told the Perth Children's Court experts have been unable to determine why the girls turned into murderers.
The two girls were 16 in June last year when they put a cloth soaked in chemicals over the face of 15-year-old Eliza Davis and strangled her with a piece of wire.
Her body was found in a shallow grave underneath a house in Collie, in south-west Western Australia, in June last year.
The court has been told the pair have shown a complete lack of remorse and emotion over what has been described as a sadistic, callous and cold-blooded murder.
The girls have provided no explanation for the murder, other than telling police it felt right, even though they knew it was wrong.
Today their lawyers submitted that both girls had troubled upbringings.
One had not dealt with the tragic death of her mother while the second fell into the so-called 'goth' culture and had a preoccupation with death.
Outside the court, one of the police officers who worked on the case, Detective Senior Sergeant Steve Post, said the case highlighted a disturbing trend in society.
"We've seen in recent times where young girls are taking the lives of others - I just wonder what we're exposing our children to in this society when things like that happen," he said.
Eliza Davis's father, Steve, said the girls had shown no remorse.
"I can't see any option for the judge except to give them a good long sentence," he said.
Prosecutors have called for the girls to be given life imprisonment when they are sentenced next month. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Teenage murderers showing remorse, lawyers say
Lawyers for two Western Australian teenagers who killed their friend have defended their clients against allegations the girls have not shown any remorse or guilt for what they have done. Prosecutors say the two 17-year-old girls have shown a complete lack of remorse for murdering their 15-year-old friend, Eliza Davis, in the south-west town of Collie last year.
The girls have provided no explanation for the killing other than telling police it felt right. Today their lawyers told the Perth Children's Court the girls' early pleas of guilty were signs of remorse. The court also heard it appeared one of the girls had been unable to process what she had done, while the other had written a letter to the victim's mother expressing regret, but had not been allowed to send it.
Outside the court, Eliza Davis's father said he did not accept they are sorry. "They're trying to do their best to get out of it now, which is expected," he said. The two girls will be sentenced next month.
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There's quite a different tone to this particular report eh? |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks like the defense lawyers putting a "good spin" on the story. |
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