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Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Has anyone heard or read anything about his parents? I wonder how they are taking it. Actually , I guess it is kind of amazing that there is NOTHING of his parents out there... |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Marcella-FL wrote: | | Has anyone heard or read anything about his parents? I wonder how they are taking it. Actually , I guess it is kind of amazing that there is NOTHING of his parents out there... |
I heard this morning that it was reported his parents have gone into hiding and are trying to hide from the media and police.
I can understand the media, but they do need to talk to the police.
I feel for them because this has got to be so hard on them. |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Skylace wrote: | That was in the DSM I we're not on the DSM IV-R and homosexuality was taken out by the DSM II
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It was in there from 1952 till 1974 and only removed after gay activists protested. It was replaced '"with a milder category of "sexual orientation disturbance"' .. which could possibly still count homosexual behavior if a mental professional deemed it so.
I do fear a book like this ... with it, almost anyone can be categorized in one of its sections as mentally ill (who's 100% sane anyway) .. and thus no need to look at what "caused" the illness. Someone is just mentally ill, and the focus moves onto counseling / medication / hospitalization. Anyway, that's how I feel after following this thread on this forum.
In my opinion, stress could cause mental illness {possibly even temporary insanity}, and thus possibly be a cause and/or a trigger for mass murders. When someone "snaps", it is possibly after some innocent comment, but that is like the metaphoric straw which broke a camel's back. |
You know, if you knew anything about this you would also realize that this book isn't the only thing that is used. And also, it's not just gay activists that protested it, it was those in the mental health field as well. And I know this for a fact because my father was in the field and I've yet to meet one shrink who has said that it still needs to be in there. So don't go posting "facts" unless you actually know the whole story.
You say you fear this book, but have you actually read it? Seen it in use? Talked to professionals who used it? No, you've just now started going to sites and reading up on it. Please you're being like the parents who say "Harry Potter" preaches witchcraft and they've never even read a sentence. It's a guide, not a bible. They're trained to use it, understand it, even question it and they use other testing tools and books. It's not the end all and be all to the mental health world.
And stress does not cause MENTAL ILLNESS! That is a chemical imbalance. Stress can cause a MENTAL DISORDER or even a BEHAVIORAL DISORDER.
I'm done talking to you about this because you are just grasping at straws to prove a point and going to websites and stats. You're just proving to me that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You want to see it the way you want to see and there's nothing you can do otherwisse.
One thing about stats you need to know, is they're like bikini's: what they reveal is inticing but what they conceal is vital. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Skylace wrote: | | And stress does not cause MENTAL ILLNESS! That is a chemical imbalance. Stress can cause a MENTAL DISORDER or even a BEHAVIORAL DISORDER. |
I am might be missing the subtly of the difference between Mental Illness and Mental Disorder.
Whilst we all know Wikipedia can be wrong, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_illness states :
+"A mental illness or mental disorder refers to one of many mental health conditions" {as if illness/disorder are synonymous}
+"Early environmental causes such as stress or upbringing have been implicated in the cause of mental illness"
Please show me any reference that mental illness could not be caused by environmental causes (such as stress).
And since you made the distinction, why couldn't Cho be suffering from a Mental Disorder or Behavioral Disorder ? Why have you concluded it had to be Mental Illness, and thus you claim, can't be caused by Stress ? |
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girldorksrule
Arrrrrrr...scurvy!
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Location: Walkin' the plank
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| GG, I'm afraid you are going to snap from all the stress in this thread. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks "girldorksrule".
 I am monitoring my blood pressure (thankfully still "normal" 127/83). |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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It must be great to be GG_Fan. She's an expert on everything, even things she's only heard of for the first time that very day!
I love how she replied to Skylace's mention of the DSM by admitting she'd never heard of it before, and in the very same thread starts picking it apart based on a Wikipedia article.
I just hope everyone else considers you the joke I do, GG_Fan. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| nekokate wrote: | | I just hope everyone else considers you the joke I do, GG_Fan. |
A bit personal there .. don't lose your cool Kate.
Argue the point ..
"Please show me any reference that mental illness could not be caused by environmental causes (such as stress). "
I found a section on Wikipedia which supported my view that it could. Please find anywhere which agrees with the opposite viewpoint (which you seem to hold) ? Or is this thread just supposed to be personal opinion, and no references/links to the outside world ?
If you can't find any reference to support your view, then the joker certainly isn't me. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Stress is a symptom, not a cause. |
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think we need to cool this down here and now. I got quite upset myself but it's just a normal, human reaction when we see things going in a direction we don't see appropriate for what this is really all about. It's about 32 lives lost and for the most tragic of reasons.
We all have our own posting style and sometimes dig our feet in when we don't agree with someone else or maybe even want to learn from others in the thread, but we have to keep in mind the most important thing, and that's what I mentioned above....human tragedy.
Might I suggest we all try harder to keep our cool here and just get on with the discussion, but lets not beat one thing to death but more try and learn from one another or maybe try and understand why or how such a thing could have happened. Another important thing would be to give your opinion and not links to prove what you're saying. Links can be helpful to give us further information, but lets discuss this from our own hearts and minds rather than links. We don't need them to believe what one another says. It's either credible to us or it's not, and that's when the discussion gets more interesting/informative. |
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nekokate
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | nekokate wrote: | | I just hope everyone else considers you the joke I do, GG_Fan. |
A bit personal there .. don't lose your cool Kate.
Argue the point ... |
But it's not about me arguing the point; you're arguing the pointless. I've not contributed to this thread at all while it was on-topic, but now it's been derailed by you and the reams of links you use in place of braincells, I'm commenting. Haven't you noticed that virtually everyone else here, instead of following up on what they feel, is having to spend time refuting the ignorant crap you're posting, and before we know where we are, the thread is no longer about what it should be about.
| GG_Fan wrote: | | If you can't find any reference to support your view, then the joker certainly isn't me. |
Well, since my view is that you are an ignorant, obsessive fool who has attached herself like a desperate limpet to this website and seems to have a very time consuming compulsion to reply repeatedly to every single thread that has the slightest whiff of politics and manufacture arguments based not on your own opinion but merely propped up by so many links to articles on other, seperate websites that people are put off from replying because either they don't have time to read them all or they just can't be bothered and would rather hear what you yourself think, then the references you're looking for to support my views can be found in this very thread, because you were told this by others, just not as blatantly. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure you were writing that post before you saw Irish's so let's just leave it at that.
If there are any more actual facts about the case then let's stick to those. |
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Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Not a "fact" about the case but interesting essay by Stephen King on writing and predicting violence....
| Quote: | By Stephen King
(EDITORS' NOTE: In the wake of the Virginia Tech murders and subsequent reports that Cho Seung-Hui had raised alarms in the English department with his writing, we asked novelist and Entertainment Weekly contributing editor Stephen King for his thoughts on the links between the creative process and violence. Where, exactly, does one draw the line between imagination and disturbing expression that should raise red flags?)
I've thought about it, of course. Certainly in this sensitized day and age, my own college writing — including a short story called ''Cain Rose Up'' and the novel RAGE — would have raised red flags, and I'm certain someone would have tabbed me as mentally ill because of them, even though I interacted in class, never took pictures of girls' legs with my cell phone (in 1970, WHAT cell phones?), and never signed my work with a ?.
As a teacher, I had one student — I will call him George — who raised red flags galore in my own mind: stories about flaying women alive, dismemberment, and, the capper, ''getting back at THEM.'' George was very quiet, and verbally inarticulate. It was only in his written work that he spewed these relentless scenes of gore and torture. His job was in the University Bookstore, and when I inquired about him once, I was told he was a good worker, but ''quiet.'' I thought, ''Whoa, if some kid is ever gonna blow, it'll be this one.'' He never did. But that was in the days before a gun-totin' serial killer could get top billing on the Nightly News and possibly the covers of national magazines.
For most creative people, the imagination serves as an excretory channel for violence: We visualize what we will never actually do (James Patterson, for instance, a nice man who has all too often worked the street that my old friend George used to work). Cho doesn't strike me as in the least creative, however. Dude was crazy. Dude was, in the memorable phrasing of Nikki Giovanni, ''just mean.'' Essentially there's no story here, except for a paranoid a--hole who went DEFCON-1. He may have been inspired by Columbine, but only because he was too dim to think up such a scenario on his own.
On the whole, I don't think you can pick these guys out based on their work, unless you look for violence unenlivened by any real talent.
Posted Apr 20, 2007 |
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girldorksrule
Arrrrrrr...scurvy!
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Location: Walkin' the plank
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm glad he wrote that and he makes some valid points. Artists live in their imaginations and to assume an artist (I don't care what form) is mentally ill because of their story or painting or script just scares the crap out of me. There are other factors involved and he stated that nicely. Thanks for posting that. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, it was interesting to read, though I don't like to see anyone making a judgment about the guy until the facts about the guy are known properly. The trick is in learning the difference between someone exorcising their demons through their art and someone who's actually developing them through it. |
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