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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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faceless
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Patriot Act? Suicide rates? Stress? This is about a guy who went off the deep end and shot people.
I really wish you'd learn to control your linkages. It's just boring to see one after another after another. Just write what you think eh? |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | Patriot Act? Suicide rates? Stress? This is about a guy who went off the deep end and shot people.
I really wish you'd learn to control your linkages. It's just boring to see one after another after another. Just write what you think eh? |
I think they are linked : I believe stress pushed this guy over the edge to the point he wanted to commit suicide whilst shooting a lot of people so his suicide is notable. The innocent people killed were, by law, not allowed to carry guns to protect themselves, and now the same politicians who used 911 as an excuse to rip up the US constitution, via the Patriot Act, are using this atrocity to finally destroy the 2nd amendment right to bear arms. They hope people are so shell shocked that they will not realize, till it is too late, the rights they have given away, and they end up in a country with none of the constitutional rights they used to have. |
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faceless
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't care. I could link this to food additives or the weather if I liked - but it's just speculation. Your arguments sound just like those on infowars - not really caring about the people who have been killed, or their families, but about the fact that some fat bastards might be told they can't have a gun. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Faceless, I believe that is far from correct. I care deeply about the stress in society caused by "modern life", by the economic hardship of outsourcing, income inequality, high taxation to fund wars, high property prices which most people can't afford, or if they take huge loans, then about losing their homes.
I also care about what is the best way to prevent a recurrence of this or similar atrocities, whether by dealing with the causes of the stress, or by spotting the stress and mental illness and then getting counselling or better mental assessment/care, and only lastly by giving the innocent citizens a way to protect themselves, if the state is unable to protect them for whatever reason (including whether the state police and national guards are overseas when they should be at home protecting the innocent, e.g. by searching for illegal weapons and criminals inside the US). |
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faceless
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem is that you're making a case study of something that you know very little about in reality. You even suggested earlier that he was the victim of a fraternity initiation for example. Your speculation is little more than a blanket-bombing technique - and of course one of them may hit home, but only by chance. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Faceless, you asked for my opinion, you didn't want any references / URL to back up where I got it from .. so you have just my opinion and speculation .. which is what I thought this forum was all about.
And what is wrong with speculating that he might have been a victim of a fraternity initiation ? Is this so implausible ? Does stressful fraternity initiation occur these days ? I don't know, but I didn't put it forward as a fact .. I just said I wonder if it might have been an "issue" or seen by Cho as a form of bullying. We know very little facts on these breaking news stories, and most of this thread is speculation. |
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faceless
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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What is wrong with speculating when you don't really have a clue as to what really drove the guy? I think the question answers itself.
It's the fact that you can't actually know what you're talking about, but are instead just throwing every possible suggestion at it to try and make it stick that's the problem. |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| He didn't commit suicide because he was under stress. Period. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Skylace wrote: | | He didn't commit suicide because he was under stress. Period. |
Did he suffer any stress ? [I believe so]
If so, was that stress a factor in the suicide ? [I believe so]
Would alleviating the stress have reduced the chance he would have committed suicide / mass murder ? [I believe so] |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Skylace wrote: | | He didn't commit suicide because he was under stress. Period. |
Did he suffer any stress ? [I believe so]
If so, was that stress a factor in the suicide ? [I believe so]
Would alleviating the stress have reduced the chance he would have committed suicide / mass murder ? [I believe so] |
Okay, let me explain something to you. Yes, he probably was stressed, however, his stress was not like the stress everyone else has. He was mentally unstable. He suffered from a MENTAL ILLNESS! You cannot look at stress for the average person and how that causes suicide and then attribute it to the suicide of a murdering rampage of a mentally ill individual! It doesn't work that way.
His suicide wasn't done because he felt "stressed" it was done as a part of his plan. In his own mind what he was doing was right and he was a martyr.
I'm sorry if you just don't get it. But once again, stop using stats taken from suicide studies that are in no way related. And I will also let you know that studies are being done with these types of mass killings but because we in the mental health field do not have a large enough sample we cannot draw specific conclusions. There isn't even an accurate profile yet. And I can assure you we don't look at the suicide rates of the average person and use it to look at people like Cho because it's irrelevant.
I think you should maybe stop looking at stats at on the web and maybe pick up the DSM and other actual texts on these things and start doing some actual research on mental illness. Then you might realize that placing Cho and others like him into current studies of average society just ain't gonna fly. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Skylace wrote: | | I think you should maybe stop looking at stats at on the web and maybe pick up the DSM and other actual texts on these things |
Thanks. Since it wasn't my field, this is the first I have heard of DSM .. but glad wikipedia had a page :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders
The "Criticism" section interestingly mentioned "The DSM has also been criticized for allegedly classifying behaviors that are simply unacceptable in the society of that time such as homosexuality (listed in the DSM until 1974).[23]"
Above mentioned "Detractors of DSM argue that attention directed towards finding a suitable DSM category for a patient would be better spent discussing possible life-history events that precipitated a mental disturbance or monitoring treatment." that is all I was doing when I was wondering about the Stress / events at university. |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Skylace wrote: | | I think you should maybe stop looking at stats at on the web and maybe pick up the DSM and other actual texts on these things |
Thanks. Since it wasn't my field, this is the first I have heard of DSM .. but glad wikipedia had a page :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders
The "Criticism" section interestingly mentioned "The DSM has also been criticized for allegedly classifying behaviors that are simply unacceptable in the society of that time such as homosexuality (listed in the DSM until 1974).[23]" |
Christ, actually read the DSM. That was in the DSM I we're not on the DSM IV-R and homosexuality was taken out by the DSM II
I enjoy wiki, but you should never go to it as your only source. http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html
Or better yet, get a real books and research from those. While doing my thesis if I had only used the net my paper would have been rejected and in all honesty, flawed. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Skylace wrote: | That was in the DSM I we're not on the DSM IV-R and homosexuality was taken out by the DSM II
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It was in there from 1952 till 1974 and only removed after gay activists protested. It was replaced '"with a milder category of "sexual orientation disturbance"' .. which could possibly still count homosexual behavior if a mental professional deemed it so.
I do fear a book like this ... with it, almost anyone can be categorized in one of its sections as mentally ill (who's 100% sane anyway) .. and thus no need to look at what "caused" the illness. Someone is just mentally ill, and the focus moves onto counseling / medication / hospitalization. Anyway, that's how I feel after following this thread on this forum.
In my opinion, stress could cause mental illness {possibly even temporary insanity}, and thus possibly be a cause and/or a trigger for mass murders. When someone "snaps", it is possibly after some innocent comment, but that is like the metaphoric straw which broke a camel's back. |
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faceless
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The counselling would look at the cause - that's the point of it. |
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