Does Israel control American policy, or the other way round?

[major.tom]

[Karl]

Israel is america's 51st state.
And a large number of Israelis are american passport holders.
But the Israeli lobby in the US is huge and the fact is no politician has ever been elected in the US without their backing.
You would not even get elected to be a school janitor if your policy was anti-apartheid.
If anyone disagrees nameone american politician who has ever said anthing anti-Israeli. If you can i will eat my hat.

[Mandy]

[Mandy]

[faceless]

[Mandy]

[Mandy]

[Rys2sense]

This is Ry of Anti-Neocons.com the real Ry the moderatter can varify it.

The quesiton in the poll is wrong.
I can answer that question it is neither. Both Israel and America are both controlled by the MIC thye have overlapping interest. BUt as far as what does America do for Israel compared to what does Israel do for America then ISrael definately gets the upperhand because they do absolutely nothing for America but give demands and cost a lot of money and blood.


Thereason it is important for the MIC to involve Israel is because of the multi Billion dollar investments by Christrian Churches.

see this http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=1830

[faceless]

good to see you Ry - if anyone's not seen your site then I recommend it as a good source for intelligent opinions.

[DavidGig]

I fully agree with GGFan's point about the strength of the Israel lobby in the U.S., and I have to say that this is one thing that I think Galloway doesn't get quite right. The traditional Marxist analysis (Chomsky is the best example, since he has trained a whole generation of followers) sees everything in a framework of the struggle for profits. There's just no room in their analysis for the role of powerful classes with other motivations--ethnic and religious loyalties for example.

The one bright point in recent months over here has been a gradual weakening of the taboo over this subject. Thanks to the Iraq war, the Mearsheimer & Walt paper, and a couple of brave politicians, the logjam is beginning to break and we're starting to see a little mainstream discussion of the question.

(By the way, on the question of Chomsky: it should be remembered that he once considered moving to Israel and in fact lived there for a while. So his anit-Zionist credentials are not squeaky clean. America is the villain in his analysis--not Israel. And for many years he refused to put his support behind the boycott movement. Considering how much influence he wields in the Left, this could have made a huge difference to the Palestinian solidarity movement.)

[Karl]

There is one thing im sorry to say that puzzles me
I understand the difference between Marxism and Zionism. OK.
But i also understand that Lenin. Marx and Trotsky were all jewish and that marxism was based on the Jewish Kibbutz system.
I also understand that Marxism was the method by which a small ethnic group the jews overthrough the zsar and managed to control ultimately 300 million people for a time.
Therefore i am inclined to agree that for a period both the western capitalist system as well as the soviet block was controlled under their control.
However, stalin's genocide actually killed more people than hitler although not much is ever spoken about this.
Zionism gained maximum strength during the reign of yeltsin.
So i am reluctant to accept pro communist views because these are equvalant to pro zionism,

Example, tony blair was a former member of cnd and a published supporter of michael foot, john reid was a member of the UK communist party, etc Now look at them. Communism is simply a means to control the many by the few. If you are one of the few then great if not then hard cheddar cheese.

I believe all men are equal.
I believe the illuminati, the neo-cons, the chosen few, the zionists disagree with me.

[harry perkins]

Karl's last post is the worst yet. The idea that capitalism and communism are both under Jewish control was one used by Hitler to portray Naziism as radical while retaining the possibility of winning the majority of (non-Jewish) capitalists to support him, as they eventually did; it is an utterly ridiculous idea. The Russian Revolution was not about "The Jews" taking over 300 million people but a revolt the leadership of which included both Jews and Gentiles. The prominence of Jews was because they were the most opressed group in Russia, giving them an added incentive to become revolutionary. The most opressed often come to prominence in revolutions and mass movements, like British Muslims in the anti-war movement today. I don't think Stalin killed more Jews than Hitler, but even if he did the difference was that Hitler led the systematic industrial anihalation of what would have been, had the project been completed, every Jew in Europe not for anything they had done but simply for being born Jewish, I get suspicious when these kind of quibbles are raised.

[Karl]

please look up the book
"the protocols of the elders of zion"

and WW2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_K2F4-iaxo

[til661]

This is not something I say lightly and I can't remember having to say it to someone before: You are a racist and an anti-semite.

It was pretty obvious from all your other posts but that last one was the final straw. There is absolutely no point debating the likes of you. GGFan is this your idea of people the left should be allied with?

I give up.

[faceless]

Karl - you've already been on thin ice and if it means that other people are upset by your opinions (especially ones suggested to be facts) then your account will be closed.

There will be no further warnings.