Trident

[Karl]

The trident missile system is the next scandal,
Britain is going to pay America £75,000,000,000 for America locating their trident system in Britain. We are not going to be able to fire it because they have the launch codes.
So it is 100% theirs. And most of you probably agree.

But a second scandal which many of you have probably not considered is that even if they did let us fire it, it probably won’t work. You see china is probably the new cold war not Russia.
Trident uses satellite guidance and GPS target positioning and there is a problem. A big problem.

Britain joined the US, Japan and Australia’s condemnation of China after the communist country used a ballistic missile to destroy an orbiting satellite. According to the report, the redundant weather satellite was destroyed last Thursday with a ballistic missile fired from the Xichang space centre in Sichuan province. There is stony silence on the subject in the Chinese media as concern grows in the US and in the region about the test’s implications. China became the third country after the United States and the former Soviet Union to shoot down an object in space, indicating the Asian power could target satellites operated by other nations.

I have not heard anyone in parliament or out talking about this.

[Lucky Lucan]

Thats because its not the case, the Trident missile has a stellar sighting guidance system that takes a reading from the stars to work out the missile's position and make any adjustments necessary to the pre-programmed route to its target area.

[Mandy]

[Karl]

How the hell can bombs be guided by following the stars? you made a statement which you have not backed up. Trust me trident by the time it comes on stream will be redundant because the chinese will be able to knock out every satelite at will. Which is one HUGE reason not to get it.

I believe it is wrong to get nuclear weapons anyway.
And i believe it is wrong to spend/waste £75,000,000,000 on them anyway.
The issue of the americans retaining the launch codes was brought up by michael meecher in parliament.
But if it turns out that the bloody thing wont work at whatever time it is supposed to be used then that is something the public need to know about. And that was not brought up by meecher or anyone else.

[til661]

[Mandy]

[Mandy]

You can't see the stars during the day time. Also, with all the rotations of the planet and stars, I don't think the missiles have enough computing power to work out fast enough where they are from the stars before they have to steer themselves.

Sounds like a military lie .. from the same guys who brought you WMDs in Iraq.

Note : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_missile mentions this even for old Trident.

Doesn't seem possible now, let alone decades ago

[Lucky Lucan]

Unbelievable you start screeching because one of your falsehoods has been exposed, the trident has a inertial navigation system that can guide it to its target without any outside assistance, it also uses stellar sighting guidance system once out of the earths atmosphere ( so day or night makes no difference) to double check its inertial navigation (it can also use gps if available) and make any small changes if necessary, so Karl while there may be valid reasons for not wanting trident the rubbish your are spouting is not one of them.

[Mandy]

Makes you wonder why the US needs GPS .. if these inertial navigation systems and stellar sighting guidance systems are so good.

p.s. Karl is right. There is no independence from the USA, once Britain is lumbered with Trident.

c.f. http://worldpressnetwork.net/index.php/British_Nuclear_Weapons


On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_missile states

"Guidance system: inertial, using ring laser gyroscope[4], with stellar sensor update or GPS guidance"

i.e. Karl is RIGHT .. some Tridents do have GPS. If inertial guidance was so good, why would they even use GPS. The answer is that GPS is probably a necessity due to inaccuracies in inertial guidance .. i.e. inertial guidance and stars can NEVER be as accurate as GPS .. i.e. if trying to knock out a Silo, you need GPS accuracy/


It gets more interesting the more I read the Wiki page. Trident I didn't have GPS. Trident II (which does) states : "The second variant of the Trident is more sophisticated and can carry a heavier payload. It is accurate enough to be a first strike weapon."

i.e. GPS is needed for a 1st strike. Now let me guess, what's the chances of Britain being sold the "cut-down", non GPS version.
Hint : Answer rhymes with "Hero".

[faceless]

[Mandy]

Faceless, any nuclear missile miles off target can do "damage" .. but if trying to knockout an enemy missile in a hardened shelter, you need a direct hit (note Wikipedia reference to "accuracy" for a 1st strike)

[faceless]

if a nuclear missile lands two or five miles from my house I'll be cooked - just as well I'm 20 miles from Faslane. As a kid I remember trying to work out how long I'd get to live after being poisoned by the fallout - happy days.

[Mandy]

Faceless, I agree about the dangers to all of us of Trident. Which is one reason why any use of Trident is MAD .. the "blow-back" of radiation etc. will cover the planet.

The issue I am saying is that to knock out an enemy's nuclear missiles (e.g. China or Russia or India or Pakistan .. or Israel, though US won't allow it) you need pinpoint accuracy on the underground silos holding the missile. A near miss won't prevent the missiles firing back.

Again, I refer to Wikipedia that accuracy is needed for a 1st strike,

[faceless]

But the only situation where a 1st strike will be "necessary" is one where there won't be complete annhiliation as a result; and with China's influence in India, Pakistan being under American influence and Russia (Ukraine is actually the "threat" in reality) being more concerned with making some bucks I can't see the situation arising at any point soon.

The simpler truth, which I should have mentioned first, is that any threat with their own satellite coverage will be able to launch their weapons in time anyway.

[Karl]

"Trident launch would have to come from the prime minister via a secure communications network"
assuming the americans give him the launch codes.
so how does tgis secure communication reach the missile? by satelite ofcourse

OK it appears some people are in favour of the deployment so let me expand further, submarines cannot use stargazing to verify their position can they?
So they must use GPS after all the whole idea of star wars was a ring of satelites orbiting earth wasnt it?

Stargazing you have to be kidding, what if the missile spots a comet and thinks its a star what if it sees an asteroid or a solar flare. Sounds like the british taxpayer is being conned out of £75,000,000,000 plus interest and plus whatever upgrades the americans want to sell us.

Really the big story is the russians, chinese and americans and soon possibly everyone else has the technology to knock out satelites making trident redundant.
Old style polaris which does not rely on GPS is actually more reliable. But the gameplan is probably the fact that it will never be used so they can probably sell us a couple of V2 rockets and charge us £75,000,000,000.

Trident is a money making scam benefiting a few private defense contracters in the US who are the usual suspects who are probably paying kickbacks over here into blair's swiss account. i would rather spend the money at home.