YouTube "Not so cool facts about Israel"

[Mandy]

[maycm]

Never let the "facts" get in the way of a posting about Israel. This is the type of propaganda put out by Iran and other anti semetic organizations. Is this what you wish to associate yourself with GG_Fan / Mandy?

There are so many things wrong with this that I can't even begin to disassemble this bigoted post.

....and is this really a "Galloway" related piece?

[luke]

which bits do you disagree with maycm? i mean if its propaganda then we should take it apart and reveal it as such

[faceless]

It is Galloway related in as much as one of his major issues is with Israel and their unjust occupation of Palestinian land - as should be the case with anyone who has respect for true justice. But there's no doubt that some of the "facts" shown here are exaggerated - Israel is not the only government in the world which is run by a bunch of utter cunts, for example.

[luke]

yeah thats what i wanna show up kinda thing, which bits are wrong - cos i don't think you need to exaggerate or make false claims regarding israel - the historical record is enough, and this kinda thing can have a negative effect

[maycm]

Like all propoganda it takes some truthful points, enough to make someone who is easily influenced to believe the whole item is truthful. exagerates and distorts others, tells half a story in other cases, and finally lies to push forward an agenda.

I don't have the resources or time to disect something like this, but when it is posted I can only wonder at the agenda of the people who (a) create this and (b) spread it in this way. This is similar to the sort of thing that Iran is putting out to justify their commitment to wiping Israel (and the Jews) off the face of the planet.

At some stage I will watch it through thoroughly and research the facts and the fiction - something that I acknowledge is becoming more and more difficult these days with everyone being able to find something that would justify their point of view somewhere on the web, however slanted it may be.

Of course the creator of this presents eveything as factual without citing any sources because that’s the way propoganda starts, and then the propoganda itself becomes the source and is taken as factual. The poster the proliferates the information around (in this case) the web, and of course we take it that the poster agrees with this because we have no evidence to the contrary.

[faceless]

[luke]

i can understand you don't have time, its a pretty long video

can you show me any of the propaganda put out by iran ( do you mean iranian government? ) i'd be really interested in seeing it, i only see our sides propaganda

where are you getting this iranian ( i guess you mean government again ) commitment to wiping israel, and jewish people, off the face of the planet?

[maycm]

[faceless]

That's the translation that everyone hooks onto, and rightly so if it were correct, but while Galloway has said on many occasions that he doesn't agree with the Iranian government at all, he also points out that that specific translation is incorrect. He quotes professors at American universities as having pointed this out, but of course I can't say this is 100% as I don't speak the language myself.

[luke]

anyone interested in this great example of the bbc helping to spread propaganda should check http://medialens.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8340&sid=d1531b88dfe491630f8295b1c0c72276 it makes for an interesting and insightful read, especially the replys from the beeb ...

[maycm]

Thanks Luke - that was an enlightening link and some interesting discussions there, notably the BBC one as you stated.

My only point to add to this is that sometimes in the spirit of finding good in everyone we occasionally find ways to soften what is said and make a translation that we are more comforatble with, or the reverse if we feel that we want to massage a translation to fit in with our own beliefs. I think you have to consider the quote in the context of other Iranian activities, such as the hosting of a conference on whether the Holocaust actually happened. Also the president himself has never made the so called "clarification" himself - just other people saying 'no, no , this is what he meant'. Of course all this is done for the benefit of the western journalists - I'd be surpised if you saw any debate on the subject take place within Iran and within Iranian media.

It’s a similar situation to Yasser Arafats time as Palestinian leader - he would make speeches in english to the 'west' and then make entirely different promises to the palestinian people. There was alleged footage which went around at the time of 9/11 of palestinian arabs celebrating the destruction of the WTC in the streets, firing guns etc which was reportedly quickly stamped upon by Arafat and subdued…..of course, we will never know the truth behind that, and it could just as easily have been 'stock' footage which had been re-labled and formed a piece of anti arab propaganda itself - it depends on what you want to believe - which brings us back to the original discussion around propoganda, whatever you believe can be supported by someone somewhere, "history" books are being continually re-written, as indeed they have throughout history, and no story is as one sided as some would have you believe.

[faceless]

I reckon the most important thing to remember when talking about propaganda is that the people who can afford to create it aren't the ones who will be affected by its outcome. The people at the bottom of the pile will always be the cannon-fodder when all they really want is to be able to live their lives without fear.

[maycm]

[luke]