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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| IRiSHMaFIA wrote: | | He was a mentally ill person and wasn't that way out of choice. It's the shitty cards handed to him in his genetic make-up or for other unknown reasons. |
Any chance the circumstances of his environment (from whatever age) was the cause [i.e. not just genetic .. which may be a contributing factor] ? I am not referring to the inadequate counseling which may have spotted the problem and prevented it. I am referring to what went made him need counseling in the first place.
I just want to explore what are the possible "other unknown reasons" .. I hope this isn't a case of "unknown unknowns".
Related to this, I haven't compared or looked deeply into suicide statistics .. but my general feeling is they are v. high. Skylace may know this. |
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | IRiSHMaFIA wrote: | | He was a mentally ill person and wasn't that way out of choice. It's the shitty cards handed to him in his genetic make-up or for other unknown reasons. |
Any chance the circumstances of his environment (from whatever age) was the cause [i.e. not genetic] ?
I just want to explore what are the possible "other unknown reasons" .. I hope this isn't a case of "unknown unknowns".
Related to this, I haven't compared or looked deeply into suicide statistics .. but my general feeling is they are v. high. Skylace may know this. |
I don't think so and I'll tell you why.
His aunt was on telly today and she was saying from the age of I think 6 he was a very quiet lad and never responded to questions he was asked. He barely communicated with his family and they were told he was autistic. I think something was very wrong with him that was never properly diagnosed and he was left too long and grew into a very angry person with hardly a glimmer of reality or anything positive to maybe make him see life a bit clearer.
It seems he hasn't had a day in his life where he was a fairly grounded person....that's if what the aunt says is true.
The one thing that bothered me during her interview was her calling him an idiot. I know in their culture they see great shame if someone goes wrong, but I don't think that was appropriate of her to say such a comment. Maybe they're the idiots for not having him properly looked after medically before taking him off to another country where he'd have an even harder time trying to blend in with the culture.
It's all so very hard to really say as I'm only guessing myself here and only going by what I've seen on the news. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks IRiSHMaFIA. The family must have had a hard time dealing with their son if they let their young son lead such a miserable and lonely life from as young an age as 6. Though there are huge pressures on a family, and they may have regarded getting him to the USA and into a good University as the best they could do for themselves as a family.
As such, I must believe they loved their son, but for whatever reason, the son drifted away from them, even from a v. young age. |
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Thanks IRiSHMaFIA. The family have a lot of blame if they let their young son lead such a miserable and lonely life from as young an age as 6. |
I thought so too GG_Fan. They should have been more committed to his mental well being from the getgo. Can you imagine being in such a closed off world, then taken to a country where the culture is so very different than anything you're use to, where everyone looks so different and the language barrier ontop of it? For a 6 year old that's a lot to overcome and get into a comfort zone with. A wee lad of that age with so many problems must have felt completely overwhelmed with it all.
I just can't help but feeling sorry for him as I don't think he ever really had a proper chance at a decent life. One of the reasons I say this is why didn't he leave a message to his family before killing himself or reach out to his family in any way? When all the other students were going off on break he stayed at uni alone and that's why one of his roommates invited him out for dinner with his family because they knew he'd be alone.
It really is so very sad, and perhaps he didn't feel his family would give him the comfort and support he needed.
Once again I want to make it clear this is all guessing on my part. He might have left a note for his family...I'm not sure. His family could be a loving lot as well so I could be well off the mark here. I know they mentioned he had a sister that went to the same uni and I'm sure she's in bits with all of it as his parents must be. |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | IRiSHMaFIA wrote: | | He was a mentally ill person and wasn't that way out of choice. It's the shitty cards handed to him in his genetic make-up or for other unknown reasons. |
Any chance the circumstances of his environment (from whatever age) was the cause [i.e. not just genetic .. which may be a contributing factor] ? I am not referring to the inadequate counseling which may have spotted the problem and prevented it. I am referring to what went made him need counseling in the first place.
I just want to explore what are the possible "other unknown reasons" .. I hope this isn't a case of "unknown unknowns".
Related to this, I haven't compared or looked deeply into suicide statistics .. but my general feeling is they are v. high. Skylace may know this. |
I've got tons of sucide stats, just depends on which ones you want! They do so many studies into in so many different areas.
Environment causing this behavior would be a very slim chance. Like Irish posted, he was this way from a very young age. And most people like him are.
The 10 year old student I mentioned earlier starting killing kittens at three years old. There are warning signs that are usually ignored until it's almost too late.
His poor family surely had a rough time of it. If you read or speak to families that have mentally ill children it affects everyone in the home in terrible ways. And sadly the parents do feel guilt, even though there is truly nothing they could have done to change the outcome.
For the extreme that Cho was, he was chemically imbalanced. Plain and simple. And I do feel sorry for him because he must have lead a tortured life. I could not even imagine what it would have been like to have been him for just an hour.
I remember when I was 13 I went to my father's office and I met my first paranoid schziophrenic. He was probably one of the most terrifying people I have met in my life. There was just a look about him, a feeling. And he was medicated and being friendly. And at the same time I felt for him because he would never know what it felt like to be like most of us. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks .. I just hope that if the world economic growth pulls back a little, we don't see more suicides due to financial or other pressures. |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | Thanks .. I just hope that if the world economic growth pulls back a little, we don't see more suicides due to financial or other pressures. |
Well, during tax season (in the States) the suicide rate does tend to go up. And actually a lot more accountants commit suicide during this time.
There are so many things that can cause someone to commit suicide. Seasonal affective disorder, depression, stress (not just financial).
However, most reports I read of suicide it isn't just centered around one thing. People who are not clinically depressed who commit suicide generally have a large build up of many stresses in their lives.
Communication break down is a big thing as well. If the person who is stressed feels there is no one they can truly trust or talk to (whether it is imagined or real) this can cause a lot more problems then anything.
We are social creatures, pack animals, and if we loose that ability to connect to each other, if we feel detatched we have a hard time facing the world.
That's one reason I always try to make it a point to try and smile. Even to people I don't know. You never know who might need that.
I can only hope though, I don't ever smile at the wrong person! 
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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 I suppose with web technology, and forums (of all sorts), that provides a way for people to feel less lonely .. and get some social support .. unless of-course they are flamed after every comment. |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | I suppose with web technology, and forums (of all sorts), that provides a way for people to feel less lonely .. and get some social support .. unless of-course they are flamed after every comment. |
The internet is a double edged sword that way. But then, most everything with communication is.
It's so wonderful that people who can't get out, be it for health reasons or whatever, can connect to others around the world. They can stay in touch with family and friends or even find new friends or lost family!
And then you have the cyber-bullies, which I have seen first hand in the schools. It's a shame.
Like all things in life there are pro's and con's. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yep .. I recall seeing stories about teenagers being bullied (and worse), and the bully is video-taping it on a camera phone -- or a vandal video taping himself & putting it on the web whilst he vandalises a school (yep, he got caught ) |
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Skylace
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| GG_Fan wrote: | | yep .. I recall seeing stories about teenagers being bullied (and worse), and the bully is video-taping it on a camera phone |
That's one reason as a society we need to be mindful. For the past two years I've been pushing for internet education to be given to teachers and offered to parents as well. Sadly, not yet. I'll just have to play the waiting game. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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With kids having access to computers, I have seen spam like pop-ups messages appearing on computers as if they are operating system messages, but are for sex-type advertising. No obvious spam/virus on the machines .. though MS Messenger is running in the background .. full firewall etc.
The sex / drugs industry are so overwhelming in their "attack" on people's computers, children are being exposed at a way too young age to such things.
Also, some of the popular free games sites, if you slightly mis-spell a letter in the name, go straight to sex sites. Also, some of these games sites try to infect your computer with spamware. A child exploring the internet is exposed to all these things .. and when presented with a box which says there is a virus found, click here to clear it up, then they will .. thus infecting their machine. |
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eefanincan
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| IRiSHMaFIA wrote: | | Skylace wrote: | | GG_Fan wrote: | Thanks Marcella. I didn't see the actual text message. I recall the girls said they felt hassled by the texts. I wonder if that could have been part of what sent him over the edge, i.e. he felt that if others had sent the same message, they would not have been reported.
Some might even regard it as romantic to quote Romeo and Juliet.
I am loath to call him a lunatic, especially since if he was still alive, that could be grounds for an insanity plea .. when he deserves to be in jail. I would just rather call him evil or a criminal, but still try to see what what upset him to help others who may be walking the same path as Cho in future.
I agree with Skylace "he was obsessive as well", i.e. part of his careful planning. |
I do not agree that he would deserve to be in jail. He wasn't sane. He instead should have been placed in a mental health facility for the rest of his life. To this day I can not understand the logic of putting someone with major mental illness or mental retardation into a prison.
You can also not look to see "what upset him" because he was mentally unbalanced. He would have been upset regardless. What "upset" him were the chemical imbalances in his brain. He needed proper medication and care. Even with that he may have still been a danger.
A good example is a schizophrenic who killed his neighbors dog because he thought it was the devil. That upset him. But it wasn't true.
Cho lived in his own reality, seperate from ours. Someone may have come up to talk to him and he may have percieved them as a threat or trying to make fun of him. While a girl may have never spoken to him ever and he had them together in his mind.
You cannot place regular logic on him. |
There's not a chance in hell he deserved to be in jail. He was a mentally ill person and wasn't that way out of choice. It's the shitty cards handed to him in his genetic make-up or for other unknown reasons.
This will probably sound odd to some and anger others, but I feel sorry for the guy. Anyone that lived in such a twisted reality as he did and so utterly sad and displaced had no real life at all but a very dark existence. Nobody chooses this sort of life for themselves and can't help what overcomes them with they're as badly troubled as he was. I just wish he was given the proper attention he so badly needed. It would have saved the lives of 32 people and none of this might never have happened.
You're spot on with everything you've had to say here Skylace. |
I have to agree with you both. What he did is without a doubt deplorable and horrible, but he obviously wasn't sane. Several medical experts are saying that he had some horrible, horrible things done to him as a child that have so completely shattered his mind he was lead to this kind of behaviour......... not an excuse, of course, but it perhaps can lead us to understand that the mental health care system needs to be changed. |
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Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| I can understand the sympathy for him ... what a dark existence he must hav ehad for who knows how long. I may hav ebad days but they are just DAYS not weeks or months or years ... mental instability is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| IRiSHMaFIA wrote: | | I really don't think this is the thread to start talking politics along with this tragedy. We're looking at it in more human terms and not how Bush or anyone else will use or not this for any agenda. Not EVERYTHING has to be politically attached. |
You were right IRiSHMaFIA when you said "or anyone else". It wasn't Bush & Co (who I initially feared would try to take advantage of this), but the Democrats. It didn't take long for the Democrats [Congressman Dennis Kucinich] to get started drafting anti-gun legislation :
http://wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=122520&article=1972123
Reminds me of the speed of filing the Patriot Act after 911, and the phrase "Legislate in Haste, Repent at Leisure"
Though I think we all agree with Kucinich where he says in above article that "recent studies that indicate many killers had histories of mental illness. He says the lack of parity for mental health care remains one of the most serious deficiencies in healthcare in the United States. Kucinich has also proposed HR 676, Medicare for all. It would establish a universal not-for-profit healthcare system, which would provide full and comprehensive mental healthcare."
One thing which I didn't directly focus on before was the link between lack of guns for self-defense and genocide. I found the link discussing this in http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/RKBA/rkba.html
The fear is that taking guns away from people exposes segments of society to genocide, and/or survititude. This was the reason the constitution mentioned the right to bear arms, since it was the basis for a society to last centuries and protected against unknown evil.
Here's a link which discusses above, and Bush's position :
http://infowars.net/articles/april2007/190407Second.htm
"Second Amendment In Danger Under Anti-Gun Bush. Gun control advocates should love the President"
p.s. I think we live in a society where the government influences or regulates almost everything we do or care about. As such, I wonder what part of our lives really is "politics free". If you mention any topic, I am sure there will be an important "political" aspect to it (i.e. the politicians / laws of the land interfering in daily life). Indeed, this over-arching control of our lives is part of what Orwell's 1984 film was focusing on. |
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