| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: American browsers should hope this isn't a Dating Site |
 |
|
|
|
American browsers should hope this isn't considered a Dating Site, since you would then need to have a criminal check done first before browsing here or arranging cookies and tea for your British "cousins" on the way to liberate Washington.
-----------
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/4/prweb515227.htm
"US Judge Affirms IMBRA: Americans Must Have Criminal Checks Before Contacting Foreigners on Internet"
On March 26, 2007, a new federal law restricting Americans from contacting foreigners through internet dating sites was upheld by a federal court after a Constitutional challenge by an internet dating company. In European Connections v. Alberto Gonzales, 1:06-CV-0426-CC, Judge Clarence Cooper of the US District Court for the Northern District of Georgia dismissed a lawsuit by European Connections which claimed that the law violated the right to freedom of speech contained in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
-----------
As it is, since a few weeks ago, Americans are banned from flying into and out of the USA without prior explicit pre-approval from the government. I wonder who will ask if I read this on a "nutter site" -- search for it out yourself if you don't believe me. If you can't find it, I will then do the leg work.
This is all well within Alex Jones' "Police State" mentality, |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: American browsers should hope this isn't a Dating Site |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: |
As it is, since a few weeks ago, Americans are banned from flying into and out of the USA without prior explicit pre-approval from the government. I wonder who will ask if I read this on a "nutter site" -- search for it out yourself if you don't believe me. If you can't find it, I will then do the leg work.
|
I'm going to have to ask because not only did I look but I know people who flew to Mexico just a few weeks ago and all they needed were their passports. There's nothing about this on the US Passport site or any of the airlines, etc. Where it would be. There is also nothing showing up in searches. And when you go to travel sites to order tickets outside the US. And when I called and talked to Continental, American, Delta and United Airlines none of them had heard of it and they told me all you need is your passport as per usual unless you are traveling to another country that requires other visas. I also spoke with my cousin who is a pilot for international flight with American airlines and flies the big air jets to Europe and he says that's not the case. So why on earth would all these people not have this information? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
I love a challenge .. back in a few minutes.
A quick answer is that in the old days, the airlines told the US government who is on the plane (before take off, or before landing, including full addresses, credit card info etc.) and the US COULD send a message back saying "x" can't fly. Recently, the default has been changed .. no-one can take off from / to the USA without an explicit green light.
I will hunt for a reference.
Update : I found it. See below. Now can I ask why is it that all the people you spoke to didn't tell you this ?
----------------
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15504.htm
Homeland Security Tightens Grip on International Travel
11/04/06 "SFTS" -- -A radical change in international travel rules has been lost in these tumultuous last few months that have seen the demise of habeas corpus, the legalization of torture and the expansion of the President's martial law powers.
The Department of Homeland Security proposed new rules back in July that would fundamentally undermine the right of American
citizens to travel abroad. Public carriers--airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats--will be required to submit the names of all passengers to Homeland Security prior to departure and to obtain permission from Homeland Security to board those passengers. These new rules will take effect January 14, 2007.
----------------
p.s. Not exactly on point, but related:
http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/202/52/
"An Iron Curtain is Descending: And Most Americans Don't Know"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15982036/from/ET/
" U.S. gives travelers terrorist risk ratings
Without their knowledge, millions of Americans and foreigners crossing U.S. borders in the past four years have been assigned scores generated by U.S. government computers rating the risk that the travelers are terrorists or criminals.
The travelers are not allowed to see or directly challenge these risk assessments, which the government intends to keep on file for 40 years.
[a factor is what meal you ordered] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: | I love a challenge .. back in a few minutes.
A quick answer is that in the old days, the airlines told the US government who is on the plane (before take off, or before landing, including full addresses, credit card info etc.) and the US COULD send a message back saying "x" can't fly. Recently, the default has been changed .. no-one can take off from / to the USA without an explicit green light.
I will hunt for a reference.
Update **not exactly on point, but related. I am hunting still for a direct reference**
http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/202/52/
"An Iron Curtain is Descending: And Most Americans Don't Know" |
Sorry, you have no proof. The page you sent me is a blog, opinions and hearsay. I've traveled through border patrol hundreds of time and can give you loads of stories myself of guards being a pain and telling me things aren't right. So that shows me nothing. And yes, we've always had to fill out those cards. You have to fill them out in every country as well for that country. When I've been to France, England, Germany all of them I fill out cards and they can refuse me.
This is purely a rumor or a conspiracy theory, simple as that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IRiSHMaFIA
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
I couldn't find a thing on it either. You sure you weren't reading an urban legend site?
I find it all very hard to believe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
See above .. I edited my entry to mention
----------------
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15504.htm
Homeland Security Tightens Grip on International Travel
11/04/06 "SFTS" -- -A radical change in international travel rules has been lost in these tumultuous last few months that have seen the demise of habeas corpus, the legalization of torture and the expansion of the President's martial law powers.
The Department of Homeland Security proposed new rules back in July that would fundamentally undermine the right of American
citizens to travel abroad. Public carriers--airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats--will be required to submit the names of all passengers to Homeland Security prior to departure and to obtain permission from Homeland Security to board those passengers. These new rules will take effect January 14, 2007.
----------------
Of-course, you could now look to see if this got implemented.
Above page links to a US government .pdf :
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=40035&dbname=2006_register |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IRiSHMaFIA
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: | See above .. I edited my entry to mention
----------------
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15504.htm
Homeland Security Tightens Grip on International Travel
11/04/06 "SFTS" -- -A radical change in international travel rules has been lost in these tumultuous last few months that have seen the demise of habeas corpus, the legalization of torture and the expansion of the President's martial law powers.
The Department of Homeland Security proposed new rules back in July that would fundamentally undermine the right of American
citizens to travel abroad. Public carriers--airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats--will be required to submit the names of all passengers to Homeland Security prior to departure and to obtain permission from Homeland Security to board those passengers. These new rules will take effect January 14, 2007.
----------------
Of-course, you could now look to see if this got implemented.
Above page links to a US government .pdf :
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=40035&dbname=2006_register |
I still don't see a thing in that link of what you presented in the initial post? That's an article from 2006 and I read that when it was brought out, but it doesn't seem to validate a thing to me?
I'll read it over again to be sure, but erm hmmm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15982036/from/ET/
" U.S. gives travelers terrorist risk ratings
Without their knowledge, millions of Americans and foreigners crossing U.S. borders in the past four years have been assigned scores generated by U.S. government computers rating the risk that the travelers are terrorists or criminals.
The travelers are not allowed to see or directly challenge these risk assessments, which the government intends to keep on file for 40 years.
[a factor is what meal you ordered] |
Okay, I hate to break this to you, but you've taken something and twisted it. Any government can refuse to let you on a plane and you need to get their approval. It's been that way for decades. What is happening here is profiling is going on. We aren't going to need to get special paperwork or get "prior explicit pre-approval from the government". They're looking at information and denying the people the right to fly.
What they are doing is wrong because they are making guesses but it's not as you presented it at the start. They are just doing very indepth, unnecessary profiling. Which should stop. And in all honesty it will. Bush isn't going to be president for much longer and things like this will start to change. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
The government .pdf appears to be the front page of the proposal. The ICH article analyses in greater detail the rest of the proposal. Of-course, whether the proposal was withdrawn or delayed or amended, I am unsure .. but it chimes with Bush's "tight security" philosophy.
Skylace, I wish they allowed "pre-approval" (like in a VISA type) days or weeks before .. at least you can appeal. There is no appeal mechanism I believe in this (or not one which will get you on the plane departing within 60 minutes). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IRiSHMaFIA
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: | | The government .pdf appears to be the front page of the proposal. The ICH article analyses in greater detail the rest of the proposal. Of-course, whether the proposal was withdrawn or delayed or amended, I am unsure .. but it chimes with Bush's "tight security" philosophy. |
Still hasn't a thing to do with the initial post. You're straying. Try and find the article you initially presented in this post. I'd be very interested in reading it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| IRiSHMaFIA wrote: | | GG_Fan wrote: | | The government .pdf appears to be the front page of the proposal. The ICH article analyses in greater detail the rest of the proposal. Of-course, whether the proposal was withdrawn or delayed or amended, I am unsure .. but it chimes with Bush's "tight security" philosophy. |
Still hasn't a thing to do with the initial post. You're straying. Try and find the article you initially presented in this post. I'd be very interested in reading it. |
I will stick my hat (if that is the expression) on the report I mentioned :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15504.htm
---------------------
"Public carriers--airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats--will be required to submit the names of all passengers to Homeland Security prior to departure and to obtain permission from Homeland Security to board those passengers. These new rules will take effect January 14, 2007.
..
the carrier will not permit the boarding of a passenger unless the passenger has been cleared by the Customas and Border Patrol.
---------------------
If implemented, then this is a major shift in a person's right to travel. Now you are effectively assumed guilty till you are allowed to travel. The USSR would have had this system if they were computerised enough to avoid asking people to get "exit visas". This is what this proposal is all about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: | | The government .pdf appears to be the front page of the proposal. The ICH article analyses in greater detail the rest of the proposal. Of-course, whether the proposal was withdrawn or delayed or amended, I am unsure .. but it chimes with Bush's "tight security" philosophy. |
Once again, Bush isn't long for the presidency. I see more coverage over here about the democratic hopefuls and their fundraising then I do him. And with the democrats in the house and the senate now, I ain't worried. This era, like the McCarthy era shall also end. Will it be perfect? No. It never is. Because people run governments and people are corruptable and emotional.
However, I have no worries about my flying to England with my husband and niece this summer. Even if my last name does end in a vowel. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Skylace wrote: | | Any government can refuse to let you on a plane |
Skylace, according to the LCH report, it is "airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats" [if they are mistaken, then I apologise]
Can any government stop you getting in a fishing boat and sailing out to sea ? [maybe dictatorships]
p.s. I am far less reassured about Democrats. They may shuffle the desks .. but the MIC is firmly behind the scenes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| GG_Fan wrote: | | Skylace wrote: | | Any government can refuse to let you on a plane |
Skylace, according to the government .pdf, it is "airlines, cruise lines, even fishing boats".
Can any government stop you getting in a fishing boat and sailing out to sea ? [maybe dictatorships] |
If there is a warrant for your arrest, yes they can. Just like they can stop you from getting in your car and driving off. But if you cross into international waters or the border they can't touch you. Has been that way for as long as I can remember and before that even. Just like I can run from the police to an indian reservation and unless the reservation police hand me over, the US government can't touch me there.
But what does this have to do with ships and planes having to clear their manifests? That's not uncommon. What the problem stated before in the NBC article was the in-depth and silly profiling. Not that we have to get pre approval.
And I've traveled since January, I have my passport and me and everyone else on the flight was just fine. We didn't cough once  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Coughing is risky these days 
p.s. In the old days, if you didn't have a warrant outstanding against you, then you could leave on a fishing boat without being pre-approved. That was the point I was mentioning. The issue is that you may not realise you had been pre-approved .. but according to the report, you have been since Jan 07 (assuming it was implemented).
I will pass the baton to anyone else to wants to discuss this .. I am too exhausted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Couchtripper - 2005-2015
|
