Trident

[Karl]

[quote="til661"]

[Lucky Lucan]

I'll say it again the Tridents primary navigation system is it Inertial guidance system, fully capable of guiding the missile to its target without any outside help, this is an updated system that was guiding airliners around the world 30 years ago, its interesting Karl you mention the V2 ballistic missile as it was guided to its target by its Inertial guidance system, thats 65 years ago long before satellites. I'll also add that B2 bombers have been using stellar navigation successfully for years, and that i have never found anyone claiming that Trident is a precision strike weapon, Britain's nuclear deterrent is and always has been the threat of mutual destruction.

[Lucky Lucan]

And to answer the preposterous proposition that a ballistic missile submarine is unsure of it's location, the following is from Lockheed Martin's website:

Trident Sonar/Defensive Weapon System Navigation

DESCRIPTION:
Lockheed Martin has been responsible for the design, development, integration, test, and support of the navigation system for the life of the fleet ballistic missile (Polaris/Poseidon/Trident) submarine program. The navigation system on the Trident submarine is the most accurate inertial navigation system ever produced, capable of precisely locating the submarine's position for pinpoint firing of the nuclear-armed ballistic missiles, as well as for platform navigation and guidance. Upgrades infuse the latest electronics technology to improve performance, reduce life cycle costs and provide passive navigation capabilities. Passive navigation uses gravity sensor systems for navigation and terrain estimation for covert submarine operations.

Trident D5 SSBN employs the AN/BQN-25 Navigation Sonar System as an aid to inertial navigation. Over long periods of operation, the SSBN Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) requires external position resets to correct errors. The NSS provides a position correction by performing a technique called bathymetric fix. This is a map-matching process wherein previously surveyed areas called Precise Bathymetric Navigation Zones (PBNZs) are traversed while the sonar convertly pings the bottom.

[Mandy]

If Inertial guidance was so good, we wouldn't need GPS .. Trident II wouldn't need GPS, Cruise missiles wouldn't need GPS ...

Inertial guidance is NOT accurate. If it was accurate, we wouldn't need GPS.

p.s. "the SSBN Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) requires external position resets to correct errors." They mean correcting errors in the submarine's position. But Trident missiles can't correct their errors without satellites, as Karl mentions, and I agree.

[Mandy]

[Lucky Lucan]

Thats the whole point it doesn't need gps, of course anybody is going to fit a system with the capability so it may be used if available that common sense, how the hell do you think airliners navigated across the Atlantic in the 70's by looking out of the window, how do you think Apollo 11 got to the moon, with a map, you may not like Trident but for crying out loud, don't try to ignore the facts you don't like.

[Mandy]

Inertial guidance is old inaccurate technology.

The generalised point is modern warfare AND SOCIETY is HEAVILY satellite dependent.

China & Russia could knock out the satellites. We shouldn't be spending money on TRIDENT .. but instead trying NOT to threaten the world .. who naturally would then need to threaten us back.

We should live up to our NPT obligations .. NOT sign up to a new class of nuclear weapons

[Lucky Lucan]

Weather we should or should not have nuclear weapons is an entirely different argument and one on which i am happy to agree to disagree, my argument is weather the weapons system is effective or not, if you don't want Trident thats fine by me, thank heavens we live in a democracy and we are all allowed to express our views, but please don't put forward the proposition that it won't work, because its simply untrue.

[Karl]

[Mandy]

[Karl]

Trident like the moon shots is simply a way of conning the US taxpayer out of money.
Britain is paying the US our money for their old rope.
After the war Britain has paid the US £255,000,000,000 to repay a £3.8billion loan. Which the US lent us for fighting hitler Now that money has dried up the us wants to start milking us again. Trident is the method.

They have the launch codes, they control the manufacturing and the software, they get most of the jobs, we pay. I am against it for every reason i have already previuosly stated but my main motivation for posting this topic was the very fact that the whole system can probably be made redundant by the chinese or whoever else by knocking out the satelite network.
The chinese satelite killer happened on the same day as jade goody and shilpa shetty so there was no uk major media coverage other than minor internet coverage. That day that was in fact the main story i believe and the event would make trident useless. I would like a politician or a journalist to stand up and question whether trident in fact will work 100% properly without any satelite input.
My view is that without some satelite input it will not work properly. Therefore why buy an expensive car that runs on ethanol and you only have diesel?

dont forget defense procurement costs increase all the time and costs are always driven up £75 billion will soon be £100+ interest, exchange rate fluctuations it could be even more. EG NIMROD, EUROFIGHTER, ETC

[Lucky Lucan]

[faceless]

[harry perkins]

[Mandy]

VERY SAD :

Two crew members have been killed in an accident on a British nuclear submarine.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6476959.stm


British dying because we are misled that it is "independent" from the US.