The History of Irish Slaves

[faceless]

Lets take us down a revolting path wandering through one of the most insensitive and savage episodes in history, where the greed and avarice of the English monarchy systematically planned the genocide of the Irish, for commercial profit, and executed a continuing campaign to destroy all traces of Irish social, cultural and religious being. As the topic was politically sensitive, little has been written about this attempted genocide of the Irish, and what has been written has been camouflaged because it is an ugly and painfully brutal story.

But the story should be told...

Transportation and Banishment


If Queen Elizabeth I (Go dtachta an diabhal thú!), had lived in the 20th Century she would have been viewed with the same horror as Hitler and Stalin. Her policy of Irish genocide was pursued with such evil zest it boggles the mind of modern men. But Elizabeth was only setting the stage for the even more savage program that was to follow her, directed specifically to exterminate the Irish. James II and Charles I continued Elizabeth’s campaign, but Cromwell almost perfected it. Few people in modern so-called “civilized history” can match the horrors of Cromwell in Ireland. It is amazing what one man can do to his fellow man under the banner that God sanctions his actions!

The reign of Elizabeth I, English privateers captured 300 African Negroes, sold them as slaves, and initiated the English slave trade. Slavery was, of course, an old established commerce dating back into earliest history. Julius Caesar brought over a million slaves from defeated armies back to Rome. By the 16th century, the Arabs were the most active, generally capturing native peoples, not just Africans, marching them to a seaport and selling them to ship owners. Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish ships were originally the most active, supplying slaves to the Spanish colonies in America. It was not a big business in the beginning, but a very profitable one, and ship owners were primarily interested only in profits. The morality of selling human beings was never a factor to them.

After the Battle of Kinsale at the beginning of the 17th century, the English were faced with a problem of some 30,000 military prisoners, which they solved by creating an official policy of banishment. Other Irish leaders had voluntarily exiled to the continent, in fact, the Battle of Kinsale marked the beginning of the so-called “Wild Geese”, those Irish banished from their homeland. Banishment, however, did not solve the problem entirely, so James II encouraged selling the Irish as slaves to planters and settlers in the New World colonies. The first Irish slaves were sold to a settlement on the Amazon River In South America in 1612. It would probably be more accurate to say that the first “recorded” sale of Irish slaves was in 1612, because the English, who were noted for their meticulous record keeping, simply did not keep track of things Irish, whether it be goods or people, unless such was being shipped to England. The disappearance of a few hundred or a few thousand Irish was not a cause for alarm, but rather for rejoicing. Who cared what their names were anyway, they were gone.

Almost as soon as settlers landed in America, English privateers showed up with a good load of slaves to sell. The first load of African slaves brought to Virginia arrived at Jamestown in 1619. English shippers, with royal encouragement, partnered with the Dutch to try and corner the slave market to the exclusion of the Spanish and Portuguese. The demand was greatest in the Spanish occupied areas of Central and South America, but the settlement of North America moved steadily ahead, and the demand for slave labour grew.

The Proclamation of 1625 ordered that Irish political prisoners be transported overseas and sold as laborers to English planters, who were settling the islands of the West Indies, officially establishing a policy that was to continue for two centuries. In 1629 a large group of Irish men and women were sent to Guiana, and by 1632, Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat in the West Indies. By 1637 a census showed that 69% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves, which records show was a cause of concern to the English planters. But there were not enough political prisoners to supply the demand, so every petty infraction carried a sentence of transporting, and slaver gangs combed the country sides to kidnap enough people to fill out their quotas.

Although African Negroes were better suited to work in the semi-tropical climates of the Caribbean, they had to be purchased, while the Irish were free for the catching, so to speak. It is not surprising that Ireland became the biggest source of livestock for the English slave trade.

The Confederation War broke out in Kilkenny in 1641, as the Irish attempted to throw out the English yet again, something that seem to happen at least once every generation. Sir Morgan Cavanaugh of Clonmullen, one of the leaders, was killed during a battle in 1646, and his two sons, Daniel and Charles (later Colonel Charles) continued with the struggle until the uprising was crushed by Cromwell in 1649. It is recorded that Daniel and other Carlow Kavanaghs exiled themselves to Spain, where their descendants are still found today, concentrated in the northwestern corner of that country. Young Charles, who married Mary Kavanagh, daughter of Brian Kavanagh of Borris, was either exiled to Nantes, France, or transported to Barbados… or both. Although we haven’t found a record of him in a military life in France, it is known that the crown of Leinster and other regal paraphernalia associated with the Kingship of Leinster was brought to France, where it was on display in Bordeaux, just south of Nantes, until the French Revolution in 1794. As Daniel and Charles were the heirs to the Leinster kingship, one of them undoubtedly brought these royal artifacts to Bordeaux.

In the 12 year period during and following the Confederation revolt, from 1641 to 1652, over 550,000 Irish were killed by the English and 300,000 were sold as slaves, as the Irish population of Ireland fell from 1,466,000 to 616,000. Banished soldiers were not allowed to take their wives and children with them, and naturally, the same for those sold as slaves. The result was a growing population of homeless women and children, who being a public nuisance, were likewise rounded up and sold. But the worse was yet to come.

In 1649, Cromwell landed in Ireland and attacked Drogheda, slaughtering some 30,000 Irish living in the city. Cromwell reported: “I do not think 30 of their whole number escaped with their lives. Those that did are in safe custody in the Barbados.” A few months later, in 1650, 25,000 Irish were sold to planters in St. Kitt. During the 1650s decade of Cromwell’s Reign of Terror, over 100,000 Irish children, generally from 10 to 14 years old, were taken from Catholic parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In fact, more Irish were sold as slaves to the American colonies and plantations from 1651 to 1660 than the total existing “free” population of the Americas!

But all did not go smoothly with Cromwell’s extermination plan, as Irish slaves revolted in Barbados in 1649. They were hanged, drawn and quartered and their heads were put on pikes, prominently displayed around Bridgetown as a warning to others. Cromwell then fought two quick wars against the Dutch in 1651, and thereafter monopolized the slave trade. Four years later he seized Jamaica from Spain, which then became the center of the English slave trade in the Caribbean.

On 14 August 1652, Cromwell began his Ethnic Cleansing of Ireland, ordering that the Irish were to be transported overseas, starting with 12,000 Irish prisoners sold to Barbados. The infamous “Connaught or Hell” proclamation was issued on 1 May 1654, where all Irish were ordered to be removed from their lands and relocated west of the Shannon or be transported to the West Indies. Those who have been to County Clare, a land of barren rock will understand what an impossible position such an order placed the Irish. A local sheep owner claimed that Clare had the tallest sheep in the world, standing some 7 feet at the withers, because in order to live, there was so little food, they had to graze at 40 miles per hour. With no place to go and stay alive, the Irish were slow to respond. This was an embarrassing problem as Cromwell had financed his Irish expeditions through business investors, who were promised Irish estates as dividends, and his soldiers were promised freehold land in exchange for their services. To speed up the relocation process, a reinforcing law was passed on 26 June 1657 stating: “Those who fail to transplant themselves into Connaught or Co. Clare within six months… Shall be attained of high treason… are to be sent into America or some other parts beyond the seas… those banished who return are to suffer the pains of death as felons by virtue of this act, without benefit of Clergy.”

Although it was not a crime to kill any Irish, and soldiers were encouraged to do so, the slave trade proved too profitable to kill off the source of the product. Privateers and chartered shippers sent gangs out with quotas to fill, and in their zest as they scoured the countryside, they inadvertently kidnapped a number of English too. On March 25, 1659, a petition of 72 Englishmen was received in London, claiming they were illegally “now in slavery in the Barbados”' . The petition also claimed that "7,000-8,000 Scots taken prisoner at the battle of Worcester in 1651 were sold to the British plantations in the New World,” and that “200 Frenchmen had been kidnapped, concealed and sold in Barbados for 900 pounds of cotton each."

Subsequently some 52,000 Irish, mostly women and sturdy boys and girls, were sold to Barbados and Virginia alone. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were taken prisoners and ordered transported and sold as slaves. In 1656, Cromwell’s Council of State ordered that 1000 Irish girls and 1000 Irish boys be rounded up and taken to Jamaica to be sold as slaves to English planters. As horrendous as these numbers sound, it only reflects a small part of the evil program, as most of the slaving activity was not recorded. There were no tears shed amongst the Irish when Cromwell died in 1660.

The Irish welcomed the restoration of the monarchy, with Charles II duly crowned, but it was a hollow expectation. After reviewing the profitability of the slave trade, Charles II chartered the Company of Royal Adventurers in 1662, which later became the Royal African Company. The Royal Family, including Charles II, the Queen Dowager and the Duke of York, then contracted to supply at least 3000 slaves annually to their chartered company. They far exceeded their quotas.

There are records of Irish sold as slaves in 1664 to the French on St. Bartholomew, and English ships which made a stop in Ireland en route to the Americas, typically had a cargo of Irish to sell on into the 18th century. Few people today realize that from 1600 to 1699, far more Irish were sold as slaves than Africans.

Slaves or Indentured Servants


There has been a lot of whitewashing of the Irish slave trade, partly by not mentioning it, and partly by labelling slaves as indentured servants. There were indeed indentureds, including English, French, Spanish and even a few Irish. But there is a great difference between the two. Indentures bind two or more parties in mutual obligations. Servant indentures were agreements between an individual and a shipper in which the individual agreed to sell his services for a period of time in exchange for passage, and during his service, he would receive proper housing, food, clothing, and usually a piece of land at the end of the term of service. It is believed that some of the Irish that went to the Amazon settlement after the Battle of Kinsale and up to 1612 were exiled military who went voluntarily, probably as indentureds to Spanish or Portuguese shippers.

However, from 1625 onward the Irish were sold, pure and simple as slaves. There were no indenture agreements, no protection, no choice. They were captured and originally turned over to shippers to be sold for their profit. Because the profits were so great, generally 900 pounds of cotton for a slave, the Irish slave trade became an industry in which everyone involved (except the Irish) had a share of the profits.

Treatment


Although the Africans and Irish were housed together and were the property of the planter owners, the Africans received much better treatment, food and housing. In the British West Indies the planters routinely tortured white slaves for any infraction. Owners would hang Irish slaves by their hands and set their hands or feet afire as a means of punishment. To end this barbarity, Colonel William Brayne wrote to English authorities in 1656 urging the importation of Negro slaves on the grounds that, "as the planters would have to pay much more for them, they would have an interest in preserving their lives, which was wanting in the case of (Irish)...." many of whom, he charged, were killed by overwork and cruel treatment. African Negroes cost generally about 20 to 50 pounds Sterling, compared to 900 pounds of cotton (about 5 pounds Sterling) for an Irish. They were also more durable in the hot climate, and caused fewer problems. The biggest bonus with the Africans though, was they were NOT Catholic, and any heathen pagan was better than an Irish Papist. Irish prisoners were commonly sentenced to a term of service, so theoretically they would eventually be free. In practice, many of the slavers sold the Irish on the same terms as prisoners for servitude of 7 to 10 years.

There was no racial consideration or discrimination, you were either a freeman or a slave, but there was aggressive religious discrimination, with the Pope considered by all English Protestants to be the enemy of God and civilization, and all Catholics heathens and hated. Irish Catholics were not considered to be Christians. On the other hand, the Irish were literate, usually more so than the plantation owners, and thus were used as house servants, account keepers, scribes and teachers. But any infraction was dealt with the same severity, whether African or Irish, field worker or domestic servant. Floggings were common, and if a planter beat an Irish slave to death, it was not a crime, only a financial loss, and a lesser loss than killing a more expensive African. Parliament passed the Act to Regulate Slaves on British Plantations in 1667, designating authorized punishments to include whippings and brandings for slave offenses against a Christian. Irish Catholics were not considered Christians, even if they were freemen.

The planters quickly began breeding the comely Irish women, not just because they were attractive, but because it was profitable,,, as well as pleasurable. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, and although an Irish woman may become free, her children were not. Naturally, most Irish mothers remained with their children after earning their freedom. Planters then began to breed Irish women with African men to produce more slaves who had lighter skin and brought a higher price. The practice became so widespread that in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” This legislation was not the result of any moral or racial consideration, but rather because the practice was interfering with the profits of the Royal African Company! It is interesting to note that from 1680 to 1688, the Royal African Company sent 249 shiploads of slaves to the Indies and American Colonies, with a cargo of 60,000 Irish and Africans. More than 14,000 died during passage.
Curiously, of all the Irish shipped
out as slaves, not one is known
to have returned.

Following the Battle of the Boyne and the defeat of King James in 1691, the Irish slave trade had an overloaded inventory, and the slavers were making great profits. The Spanish slavers were a competition nuisance, so in 1713, the Treaty of Assiento was signed in which Spain granted England exclusive rights to the slave trade, and England agreed to supply Spanish colonies 4800 slaves a year for 30 years. England shipped tens of thousands of Irish prisoners after the 1798 Irish Rebellion to be sold as slaves in the Colonies and Australia.

Curiously, of all the Irish shipped out as slaves, not one is known to have returned to Ireland to tell their tales. Many, if not most, died on the ships transporting them or from overwork and abusive treatment on the plantations. The Irish that did obtain their freedom, frequently emigrated on to the American mainland, while others moved to adjoining islands. On Montserrat, seven of every 10 whites were Irish. Comparable 1678 census figures for the other Leeward Islands were: 26 per cent Irish on Antigua; 22 per cent on Nevis; and 10 per cent on St Christopher. Although 21,700 Irish slaves were purchased by Barbados planters from 1641 to 1649, there never seemed to have been more than about 8 to 10 thousand surviving at any one time. What happened to them? Well, the pages of the telephone directories on the West Indies islands are filled with Irish names, but virtually none of these “black Irish” know anything about their ancestors or their history. On the other hand, many West Indies natives spoke Gaelic right up until recent years. They know they are strong survivors who descended from black white slaves, but only in the last few years have any of them taken an interest in their heritage.

There were horrendous abuses by the slavers, both to Africans and Irish. The records show that the British ship Zong was delayed by storms, and as their food was running low, they decided to dump 132 slaves overboard to drownso the crew would have plenty to eat. If the slaves died due to “accident”, the loss was covered by insurance, but not if they starved to death. Another British ship, the Hercules averaged a 37% death rate on passages. The Atlas II landed with 65 of the 181 slaves found dead in their chains. But that is another story.

The economics of slavery permeated all levels of English life. When the Bishop of Exeter learned that there was a movement afoot to ban the slave trade, he reluctantly agreed to sell his 655 slaves, provided he was properly compensated for the loss. Finally, in 1839, a bill was passed in England forbidding the slave trade, bringing an end to Irish misery.

An end to Irish misery? Well, perhaps just a pause. During the following decade thousands of tons of butter, grain and beef were shipped from Ireland as over 2 million Irish starved to death in the great famine, and a great many others went to America and Australia. The population of Ireland fell from over 9 million to bottom out at less than 3 million.
Sick Fuckers!!

Thank you for reading!

----------------

I found this on another forum, written by someone called 'Eire Warrior'. I've no idea how much of it is genuine fact, but I wouldn't be surprised at all that most of it was (notwithstanding the writer's obvious bias)

[pirtybirdy]

I demand reparations for my people!! Here! Here! Cough up! ;-)

[faceless]

Here's some more Irish history stuff -

Irish Republican Army FBI Files
2,871 pages of FBI files covering the Irish Republican Army and activities in the U.S. with links or possible links to the Irish Republican Army.

Prior to the Easter Rebellion of 1916, the last significant rising in Ireland against the British had been the Fenian Rising in 1867. After the failure of that attempt, the vast majority of Irish nationalists attempted to work through constitutional means to secure some form of independence, typically a home rule bill from the British government. Despite this attempt, however, there was still an undercurrent of activity by those who would resort to physical force to achieve their ends.

The Irish nationalists had traditionally attempted to wage open, positional warfare against the English forces. In this vein, the modern series of uprisings began in 1798 with the United Irishmen, inspired and led by Wolfe Tone. This coincided with an attempted landing and invasion of Ireland by French forces. This rebellion was crushed rapidly by the English. A few years later, in 1803, Robert Emmet led another abortive rising. This was followed by the First Fenian Rising in 1848, which occurred subsequent to the massive emigration and starvation of the potato famine years. Fenians was the popular name for a group known officially as the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB). Once again, the English forces easily quelled this uprising, that had attempted to wage conventional warfare by seizing positions and attempting to hold them. The final rising of the nineteenth century was the Fenian Rising of 1867. This rising, too, was rapidly crushed, and many of the Fenians were imprisoned. A few of the surviving Fenians, however, subsequently experimented with new forms of physical violence. The aftermath of the 1867 incident was one prison breakout, an assassination, and a rash of bombing attacks in England. These were the isolated storm clouds and harbingers of an entirely new approach to violent resistance to English control of Ireland.

The Easter Rising of April 1916 was timed to coincide with a bank holiday (Easter Monday) and the arrival of a German arms shipment. The plotters planned on a nationwide rising, and to cover the assembly of the Volunteers and the Citizen Army, a long holiday weekend of training activities was scheduled. Many members of the Irish Volunteers, however, did not know that a rising was intended, and the plotters were limited in their assembly of manpower to the Irish Republican Brotherhood and its close associates. Beginning shortly after the apprehension of the last rebels, a series of court-martials were held, and many of the rebel leaders were hastily shot, including all those who had signed the Proclamation of the Irish Republic. James Connolly, because of the wounds he had received in the rising, had to be shot while strapped in a chair. After a trial in England that invoked an archaic Norman-era statute, Sir Roger Casement was hung for treason. In reaction to the severity of this British response, however, the tide of public opinion in Ireland began to shift swiftly.

The IVF (soon to be known widely as the Irish Republican Army) was reorganized and began clandestine training in a new style of hit-and-run warfare. Meanwhile, Michael Collins, appointed as director of intelligence, began to examine the security and intelligence structure of the British administration in Ireland. Once Collins had built a file of potential targets, he recruited a special squad of twelve hard young men, known as the Twelve Apostles, to carry out executions. Just as Collins attempted to do thorough investigative work to identify his targets, he and the squad did extremely detailed planning to conduct the actual assassinations. The general method was to follow the target to establish his habits and patterns of action. Then, a team of two to four gunmen was selected to conduct the attack. The attack was planned to provide the greatest possibility of success and to allow for a subsequent escape.

When the Irish Free State was established in 1922, the IRA remained a force of opposition to Ireland's status of being under the dominion of Great Britain and the separation of Northern Ireland. During the early years of the Free State, the IRA was responsible for numerous bombings, raids, and street battles on both sides of the Irish border.

The popularity and effectiveness of the IRA began to decline first when former IRA supporter Eamon De Valera took the helm of the Irish Free State in 1932. As time went on internal fighting, the public's lessening of tolerance for violence, pro-German sentiment in years before World War II, and increased autonomy of the Republic of Ireland, lead to a decline in status of the IRA and its being outlawed by both Irish governments. This drove the IRA underground, causing it to become a secret organization. In 1950's the IRA was responsible for bombings in Belfast, London, and the Ulster border region. Attacks stepped up in 1956 and 1957. IRA actions grew sparse until he late 1960's.

On August 12, 1969, the Battle of the Bogside took place in Derry, when the Orange Apprentice Boys of Londonderry held a parade. Rioting broke out and 1,000 police arrived to contain the crowd. Bogside marks a pivitol point where the troubles in Ireland moved away from civil rights issues and toward religious and national identities. A few days later, the British Army arrived to maintain order.

In 1969 the IRA split into two groups, the majority, or "officials" and the "provisionals." The "officials" advocated a united Ireland, but disavowed terrorist activities. The "provisionals" claimed that terrorism was necessary to achieve unification. In the early 1970's the British Government began imposing additional martial law rules over Northern Ireland. The "provisionals" then began a systematic terrorist campaign in Northern Ireland. In 1972 the "provisionals" extended their terrorism to England.

On January 30, 1972, known as "Bloody Sunday," during a civil rights march in Derry involving thousands of people, British paratroopers shot and killed thirteen Roman Catholics. Two months later the British government abolished Northern Ireland's Stormont Parliament and established direct rule. On July 21, 1972, known as "Bloody Friday", the IRA detonated 26 bombs in Belfast killing nine and injuring 130. The "provisionals" extended their terrorism campaign to England, culminating into the 1974 bombing of a Birmingham pub that killed nineteen. In 1974 the Northern Ireland Emergency Provision Act of 1973 was amended making the Ulster Volunteer Force and Sinn Fein legal organizations. From 1974 to 1975 a cease-fire was declared as secret negotiations between the Provisional IRA and the British security forces took place. The IRA believed this would be followed by a British withdrawal from Northern Ireland. In December of 1975 Britain began to prosecute Irish prisoners they had been holding with trial.

In March 1976, Britain ended Special Category status for those convicted of terrorist acts and declared that they were to be treated as ordinary criminals. In September Kieran Nugent, a Provisional IRA member is the first prisoner convicted and not given Special Category status. He refuses to wear a uniform and wears a blanket to differentiate himself from the other prisoners. This became known as the "Blanket Protest." In August 1978 Cardinal O'Fiaich visited Maze Prison and protests the unsanitary conditions. Three hundred Republican prisoners refuse to wear prison clothes and demand Special Category status. Protesters wear only blankets and smear the walls in their cells with excrement.

On August 27, 1979, Lord Mountbatten, the uncle of Queen Elizabeth II, is murdered along with three others when his boat is blown up by an IRA bomb. In October 1980, Tommy McKearney and six other IRA members start the first prison hunger strike demanding the right to wear their own clothes. On March 1, 1981. Bobby Sands begins a new hunger strike on the fifth anniversary of the ending of Special Category status. On April 9, 1981, forty days into his hunger strike, Sands is elected to parliament, winning the seat for Fermanagh-South Tyrone. On May 5, 1981, Bobby Sands dies on 66th day of his hunger strike. His death causes rioting in Northern Ireland and in the Republic of Ireland. One-hundred-thousand attend his funeral. The next day, provisional IRA prisoner, Joe McDonnell starts a hunger strike to take the place of Sands. Another nine IRA members starve themselves to death.

On November 15, 1985 the Anglo-Irish Agreement is signed by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Taoiseach Garret Fitzgerald. It establishes an Inter-Governmental Conference to deal with political matters, security, and legal matters and the promotion of cross-border cooperation. This sets in motion years of movements back and forth toward a political solution to the Irish-British Crisis.


The files date from 1939 to 1976. Files contain approximately 1,200 pages of discernable memos.

A 1939 report accounts the history of the IRA and connections to Irish Americans in the United States. Files show concern in the late 1930's and early 1940's that anti-British sentiment by Irish Americans might be used by a German fifth column to foster sabotage and subversion in the United States. FBI memos concerning Cornelius Neenan, also known as Connie Neenan. Neenan was the former head of the Irish Republican Army in the United States and the founder of the U.S. Irish hospital sweepstakes. Information on organizations such as the Irish Northern Aid Committee and the Irish-American social organization Clan Na Gael. FBI memorandums Concerning Joseph McGarrity. Joe McGarrity was a leader of the Philadelphia district of Clan-na-Gael. Documents concerning former IRA chief Sean Russell. Memos show confusion over whether Sean Russell was alive or dead and whether he was in the United States or if he had left. Memos show that when the July 31, 1943 edition of the Irish Advocate printed an article stating that an individual who had recently died had left $100 in her will to the Irish Republican Army, this launched an FBI investigation to determine how the money would be transferred to the IRA in the hope that it would reveal methods of transmission of funds from America to the IRA in Ireland. Memos show that an undercover FBI agent was able to attend a closed meeting of the IRA-Clan Na Gal held in New York City in 1944. Memos document pro-IRA demonstrations held in the San Francisco area in the early 1970's and possible interest by New Left groups in the IRA cause.

Documents:

http://www.eireartworks.com/images/IRA1.jpg
http://www.eireartworks.com/images/IRA2.jpg
http://www.eireartworks.com/images/IRA3.jpg
http://www.eireartworks.com/images/IRA4.jpg

[seshme]

I never knew that the Irish had been sold into slavery.

As an athiest and all round nice guy I am the opposite of Cromwell but I think we have to remember the context of the times. Catholics in Ireland around that time had conducted massacres of protestants before Cromwell went over. Also killing people in a town because it refused to surrender was standard practice in those days and was justified as a way of saving life in the longer term which it did since most of the other towns in Ireland surrendered.

Also your figure of 30 000 killed seems nuts Wiki for example puts it at a few thousand including maybe 400 civilians.

I'm not saying it's good but just like for me as a Scottish person knowing that Wallace hung people for not joining his army I think it's important you don't get too carried away with all the romantic inaccurate BS.

[faceless]

How does an atheist justify a particular bias against Catholics? In 3 separate posts last night you've taken a contrary position against them - in this case even justifying Cromwell's massacres because that was 'the done thing'...

And if it was the done thing, then surely any massacre by Catholics (not something I've heard of) is entirely justified by the same token? Or is that only when a government is doing the killing?

I didn't write the articles, I found them and shared them here.

[Brown Sauce]

it was originally written by a james cavanaugh.

Jim Cavanaugh is the Chief Herald of Clann Chaomhánach, the 55,000 families of Cavanaghs and Kavanaghs of the world. Our organization is not for profit and consists of a large number of people dedicated to uncover an accurate history of the Irish people in general and the royal family of the Kingdom of Leinster in particular.

Jim Cavanaugh is a scientist, researcher and author who relocated in 1996 from his home near Monasterevin, Co Kildare to San Ignacio, Cayo, Belize Central America, where he now lives.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1638

if this is the case it may well be accurate.

[seshme]

[faceless]

The point I was making it that amongst all the stuff on this site you chose 3 topics that had even a hint of Catholic about them and chose those topics to have an opinion on.

The problem with that is that not only does it show your own bias, but you're simply reinforcing your own evangelical beliefs rather than giving anything worthwhile.

I'll sort any balance issues to my standards, thanks though.

[faceless]

[faceless]