re "The Great Climate Swindle" documentary

[popinjay]

[faceless]

I'd be interested to hear it too., but that's a whole other topic.

I'll start one about it.

[luke]

i didn't watch all the documentary, but from what i saw and what i've heard it seemend to go along with kinda what i think. i'm not expert on the science, but over the years i've read quite a bit on it, and over that time i've developed the view that i have.

earths climate has always changed, we need to learn to live and develop within these changes, but we don't really care about its effects on people now, unless theres money to be made. millions of people have been suffering for years through the changing climate, changing rain patterns, sea levels etc and we're not working on any real solution to them. someone said on georges show at the weekend, half the worlds swimming in alchohol, the other half hasn't got enough water to drink ... if we can't be bothered to save those people now, what makes you think we will in the future?

although i don't agree with the man made climate change argument ( although i'm sure we're not helping ), i'm all for cutting back on pollution, which as faceless says, is all about cutting consumption - which i'm totally for. but i don't hear that coming from anywhere - not a word about cutting back consumption, because obvioulsy the big corpoartions don't want to stop us spending. whats the point in dedicating what ever small % of gdp, say 5%, to cutting climate emissions if the other 95% is going on destroying the climate! i remember listening to milliband on the news a while back, and when questioned about if he was going after the main cause of climate change, big business, he was like no, we're not concentrating on that. so they expect us to take it serioulsy, when the solutions they offer only tackle a small part of the problem.

say if there was a flood, all this water coming through a huge hole, and i said i'll fix it - but only ever tried to cover a 1/4 of the hole, you'd be saying, hang on, your not serious ... but i'll be charging you all sorts of taxes anyway while i pretend to fix the hole ;)

i also think this is being done to slow the development of developing countrys, cos the last thing those in power really want is real competition from these developing countrys, you can see it in all sorts of policys.

the only really battle the people should have is not between each other, but the one of surviving on the earth, and thats all of us surviving - are we're not doing it now ...

[Mandy]

Luke, I agree with you.

FYI :
http://worldpressnetwork.net/index.php/Global_Warming

Rising seas caused by Global Warming has claimed its first inhabited island of 10,000 people, with another 60,000 at risk

[Mandy]

Sorry for posting another article ...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2007/130307doanything.htm
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Global Warming Replaces 9/11 As Justification To Do Anything

Stop asking questions and just let us tax the living hell out of you, including the very air you breathe, after all - it's for the environment and we've never lied to you before have we?

The bellicose denouncement of global warming skeptics (that is skeptics of the man-made explanation) and their tarring as being akin to holocaust deniers, is beginning to mirror what happened after 9/11, when anyone who criticized Bush's agenda was lambasted as a traitor, a terrorist sympathizer, and completely divorced from the political mainstream.
...
Otherwise rationally minded people .. are also willing to comply with the ridiculous overbearing "solutions" to climate change that will just coincidentally restrict mobility and freedom of travel, regulate personal behavior, empower and expand global government and reinvigorate the surveillance state - everything Big Brother ever wanted - but surely they wouldn't lie to us about global warming to achieve it, would they?

What is more dangerous? A temperature fluctuation that has been mirrored and exceeded ten times in the last thousand years alone without any lasting impact on the eco-system, or an excuse for western governments to tighten the shackles of fascism around our ankles in the name of saving the planet?

Has not recent history alone offered proof in triplicate that governments exploit, hype and engender hysteria about monsters under the bed that the state itself has manufactured? Why should we believe them this time?
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[faceless]

I'd say it's entirely reasonable to tax people more if they haven't got the sense or compassion to realise that they're individually taking part in fucking the planet. And if they want to cry about it because they can't afford to buy the latest piece of tat from Argos or get a cheap flight to Torremelinos then you won't see me giving a toss.

[Mandy]

[faceless]

Well, I choose not to buy crap from Argos or other places like it and I encourage you to do the same.

[Mandy]

[luke]

thanks gg fan

shorelines have always changed, parts of the planet that are now underwater previoulsy wern't ( did anyone seem those pyramid buildings they found underwater somewhere near china!? ) and parts that are deserts now used to be underwater - things constantly change, always have, always will, nature adapts and evolves, we need to adapt, like everything else ( look at migrating animals, we used to move about to where the rains and food were, now people are blocked off by imaginary borders, kept without stable water or food supplys, look at parts of africa ) - but we also need to live more in harmony with the envrionment.

its this weird idea that somehow we can prevent this ... that somehow man is now so powerfull, we can stop the planet changing as it has done for millions of years?! its like the tower of babel thing when man thought he was so great he could build a tower to the skys, and was punished for it only this time punishment will be felt by the poorest in the worst off countrys as we slow there development, whilst we pay more taxes to fund more wars against the ones that won't do what we want

[Mandy]

Well said Luke.

[popinjay]

[behroze]

And then there is this nice article by the always great Mr Monbiot's:

[Lostinthestates]

I am really shocked about people’s views on this thread claiming that CO2 emissions have nothing to do with rising (average) temperatures. I am surprised nobody has said that last year we had a very cold winter (or something along those lines). I know there is no 100% proof that CO2 emissions are the reasons for rising temperatures, but the facts do clearly point in that direction.

I do think that extra taxation is not the real answer to the problem. The main solution is to find alternative fuels to the non-renewable sources (such as gasoline). However, this is probably the largest problem. The large petrochemical companies and their lobbyist will do everything they can to keep their monopoly on transportation fuels and do not have any interest in developing alternative fuels. Their CEOs are fully aware that their resources will definitely last as long as they will in their job – so there is no need to invest billions in alternative fuels (no business model). I am a scientist and I do believe that it is highly likely that there is a link between CO2 emissions and global warming. I believed (very naively) the propaganda the petrochemical companies blow out about investing in alternative fuels and I went for a job interview with Shell and told them how great I thought it was that they were interested in greener fuels. No need to say I didn’t get the job!

PS: til661 I like your posts – very scientific argumentation!

[Karl]

I agree with the poster who wrote "Global Warming Replaces 9/11 As Justification To Do Anything"

we all know that 911 was an inside job and has been used to justify invasions, draconian laws as well as huge increases in arms spending and to an extent now global warming is being used in a totally unexplicable way too.

Buncefield oil depot fire. I did not hear a single politician or journalist talk about global warming then.

Space shuttle launches.
Ken Livingstones elongated buses.
Bus lanes and never ending roadworks.
Easyjet flights to UK destinations.
Flowers flown in from Israel for valentines day.
These are things that i believe are causing pollution. I have NEVER flown on a plane. I always buy local goods. All my lightbulbs are energy saving. I intend to buy a Prius soon as prices come within my price range.

You mentioned tax.
OK why does Gordon Brown stipulate that BIO-diesel is taxed so heavily to make it uneconomic?
Why are under Livingstones GLA are minicabs and taxis in London as well as Dial A Ride vehicles prevented from being powered by LPG?
Why do people like politicians always fly to meetings. what happened to video conferencing?
Why are people encouraged to drive to france to buy cheap booze and fags as well as smuggle drugs and guns in?

Why does the BBC keep showing shows telling people to move to spain and holiday in Australia? Why dont they support the UK tourist industry and help the envronment at the same time.
It looks like everyone is talking cheaply.
America built the hoover dam in 1932.
When did New Labour built its Hydro Electric Power station?