woman who phoned in about Tibet

[faceless]

ok, I phoned my pal and he's gonna try and get the email forwarded. The problem is that Margaret doesn't have a computer at home, and had to use her boss's account to ask the question (she was reading off a print-out). So if things work out, he'll forward the mail on in the next while.

[Mandy]

FYI, http://davidaslindsay.blogspot.com/2008/01/galloway-muslim.html

I sent in another reply (which is yet to be OK'd bt David for display). It said

[faceless]

[nekokate]

Interesting stuff... I really don't know what to believe about the Tibet situation.

I have ther feeling that, whether Tibet really was part of China or not, or whether any number of the other contentious issues related to the situation are right or wrong, the Western governments and media are certainly capitalising on it for their own benefit - ie. any excuse to stir up anti-China feeling to make it easier for the public to accept if and when they piss China off by cancelling the Sudanese oil contracts.

[faceless]

I think the point that Margaret made about the native tibetans now being outnumbered by immigrants is an important one. Especially as Galloway used the point that the majority of the population is now ethnic Chinese to dismiss her argument.

I still don't see why he sees Tibet as part of China though. Does he then, on that logic, believe that Pakistan isn't valid as it was once part of India?

[Brown Sauce]

maybe he read this..

[faceless]

for any site to say that China isn't racist is laughable. The word 'guilo' is a commonly used term meaning 'white ghost' to refer to westerners. Also, when Chinese visitors came to Europe for the first time in the Middle Ages, they (according to an article I read in a magazine called Kindred Spirit) reported back, incredulously, that the westerners didn't even use feng shui to build their cities - something which to them was so unfathomable that from then on they treated them as almost savages.

They probably weren't wrong either...

[Brown Sauce]

makes me wonder where they screwed up. Now the only folk who build to feng shui standards are old wrinkled rich ex vegetarians who used to call themselves hippies

[Mandy]

Bearing in mind the false stories about Iraq {including throwing babies from incubators}, and the West's campaign against China (including trying to split off Taiwan), any "evidence" against China needs to be thoroughly tested against manipulation/fabrication.

If the Chinese soldiers really wanted to kill the people on the mountain, it would have been easy to kill them all. But why just kill one or two, leaving the rest to record and talk about it. Doesn't pass the smell test.

[Brown Sauce]

you might be right, but

THE SINO-TIBETAN TREATY OF 821/823 A.D.

Having consulted to consolidate still further the measure of neighbourly contentment they have made a great treaty. Both Tibet and China shall keep the country and frontiers of which they are now in possession. The whole region to the east of that being the country of Great Tibet, from either side of that frontier there shall be no warfare, no hostile invasions, and no seizure of territory....

Now that the dominions are allied and a great treaty of peace has been made in this way, since it is necessary also to continue the communication of pleasant messages between Nephew and Uncle, envoys setting out from either side shall follow the old established route. According to former custom their horses shall be changed at Tsang Kun Yog, which is between Tibet and China. Beyond sTse Zhung Cheg, where Chinese territory is met, the Chinese shall provide all facilities; westwards, beyond Tseng Shu Hywan, where Tibetan territory is met, the Tibetans shall provide all facilities. According to the close and friendly relationship between Nephew and Uncle the customary courtesy and respect shall be practiced. Between the two countries no smoke or dust shall appear. Not even a word of sudden alarm or of enmity shall be spoken and, from those who guard the frontier upwards, all shall live at ease without suspicion or fear, their land being their land and their bed their bed. Dwelling in peace they shall win the blessing of happiness for ten thousand generations. The sound of praise shall extend to every place reached by the sun and moon.....

http://www.tibetjustice.org/materials/treaties/treaties1.html

interesting also is the interference of the fuckin' British, as usual.

Convention Between Great Britain and Thibet (1904)

http://www.tibetjustice.org/materials/treaties/treaties10.html

and,

AGREEMENT BETWEEN GREAT BRITAIN, CHINA AND TIBET AMENDING TRADE REGULATIONS IN TIBET OF 1893 (1908)

section 14 sums it up,

14. The English, Chinese, and Tibetan texts of the present Regulations have been carefully compared, and, in the event of any question arising as to the interpretation of these Regulations, the sense as expressed in the English text shall be held to be the correct sense.

http://www.tibetjustice.org/materials/treaties/treaties13.html

It was all about "trade" of course, which means rippin' off the dumb locals. Now it's all about rippin' off the dumb locals mineral resources.

Not only that, but the fucking Chinese want to put their man at the top of an idea that their ideals don't accept.

The 1982 Constitution of the People's Republic of China guarantees freedom of religious belief, but China seeks to restrict the numbers of monks and nuns entering monasteries and to discredit the religious authority of Dalai Lama. The child recognised as the reincarnation of the Panchen Lama was rejected and the Chinese installed their own candidate.

It's sort of like the Italians not liking the latest flavour Pope, so they invade the vatican and put their own man in. One difference is that at least the Italians are catholics.

When in 1959 the Dalai Lama went to China to speak with Chairman Mao Zedong. Mao told him, "Religion is poison. ... Tibet and Mongolia have both been poisoned by it."

So the egotistical megalomaniac went to do something about it. Maybe the egotistical megalomaniacs in Washington and London are using all this for their own advantage, I'm sure that they are, and nonetheless will be amongst the first to try and profit from the new trade framework provided by the rail link from china to Tibet. But this shouldn't dilute the particularly bitter coffee smell that's coming out of Tibets new coffee shops populated by people that can't speak the native tongue, write the native script but sure as hell can do their bullying best to destroy a foreign culture.

[faceless]

I just received this... pity about the cat comment, but she's got a point for sure.

[Kailash]

I read this thread with great interest as I was quite surprised (and shocked) by GG's blunt declamation's on TIbet on that evening a few months back. Was this the GG whose fiery on-air oratory I'd been applauding for months? Sounded more like crackling propaganda spitting out of a PRC party megaphone!

His comments sat uncomfortably with me over the next day - to the point where I was compelled to write to him just prior to his show the following evening:

[faceless]

no worries about bumping it at all - some things need time to mature.

Great post btw.