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DavidGig
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Kansas, U.S.A.
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, it's not clear which side of the next debate Finkelstein will take, because he has always supported the Chomskian position that Mideast policy is shaped by the imperialist elites, not by Zionist elites.
This argument has been a crucial split in the American Left, with the Chomskians and most of the Jewish-American left on one side, and most of the Palestinian solidarity activists on the other.
It's probably more than most people here will find interesting, but here's a spirited debate between Finkelstein and another hero of the Left, James Petras, which captures it pretty well--
http://palestinechronicle.com/story-04170775251.htm |
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Salim201
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| thanks a lot! i was actually looking for that debate for ages.. is it possible to watch the debate live, its going on right now it think? will that streaming site have it up later on, i know bbc world isn't showing it untill next week i think. |
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DavidGig
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Kansas, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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MAJORITY OF OXFORD UNION STUDENTS SAY PRO-ISRAEL LOBBY STIFLING DEBATE
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3395057,00.html
| Quote: | A series of heated exchanges marked the arrival of the Doha Debates at the Oxford Union Tuesday night, where two-thirds of the student audience approved a motion claiming that Israel’s supporters are stifling western debate.
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Norman Finkelstein, a leading academic critic of Israeli policies, argued in favor of the motion claiming that the Pro-Israel lobby sows confusion to avoid being held to account:
"They claim that the (Arab-Israeli) conflict is so complicated that it would require rocket science to penetrate its mysteries," she said.
Finkelstein maintained that the American people are ignorant of solutions to the conflict that have been available for 30 years due to the "misinformation, disinformation, and sheer fraud which masquerades as scholarship that is validated by mainstream media."
The journalist and writer Andrew Cockburn supported this view, claiming there are "red lines" in discussing Israel that no politician or journalist in the US would dare cross for fear of being demonized or driven out of public life.
Dr Martin Indyk, former US Ambassador to Israel, and Director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, argued strongly against the motion, saying that last night’s event in Oxford was proof of a lively debate on the subject.
He said controversy over a recent book by former US president Jimmy Carter -- branded anti-Semitic in some quarters -- was further evidence that criticism of Israel was not being stifled.
His fellow panelist David Aaronovitch, the journalist and broadcaster, dismissed accusations of conspiracy around the lobby, insisting that Americans naturally identified with Israel, a country surrounded by autocracies, because of their belief in democracy: "It wasn’t the Israeli lobby that made Egypt, Jordan, or Syria dictatorships," he said. |
I imagine the video will be up at the Debate site soon. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| the result of that sounds great - I'd like to hear the reasoning from those who said it wasn't stifling debate... |
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major.tom
Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Location: BC, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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I think we see a suggestion of "the other side" in the quote provided by DavidGig.
At its logical (?) conclusion, the argument seems to be, "there isn't much criticism of Israel because reasonable people know they're in the right. They're surrounded by blood-thirsty killers and if they have to take some of them out from time to time, that's just self-defense."
Like all good arguments, there's a grain of truth to it. Israeli's are vulnerable to attack. But the cause of the animosity and the one-sidedness of the conflict remain largely unspoken. |
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Salim201
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| is anyone able to get the debate tonight on bbc world? Or at least know if anyone can cap it? much appreciated! |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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sorry rendition - links to torrent sites aren't allowed in public.
I'm getting the show now anyway, from that link (I only use and abuse that site), and will convert it to a reasonable size for upload to sendspace.
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Salim201
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| hey, is the doha debate in the galloway archive now? |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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If you mean this new one, I'm uploading it now - I'll post the link here as it's not featuring Galloway.
edit: here you go, http://www.sendspace.com/file/27xe8o
It was a pretty interesting debate for sure. |
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Salim201
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| thanks!! |
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til661
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks face! 
Really looking forward to this one. |
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rendition
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Location: Central Scotland
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | sorry rendition - links to torrent sites aren't allowed in public. |
Any reason why they're not allowed? |
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popinjay
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Gonna watch this now. Thanks. |
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Salim201
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| i was really looking forward to it aswell! it was a really good debate, i found aaronovitch's personalising the debate quite irritating, and finkelstein should have had more time but he made his points brilliantly and succintly enough for people to know he's serious on the topic, he got a good applause aswell! |
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til661
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Actually Aaronovitch was a lot less annoying than he usually is  He's rather like a poor man's Christopher Hitchens just minus the wit. You are right about Finkelstein, he didn't seem to get a fair amount of time to speak. Alex Cockburn was good though  |
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