I'm learning more about Iran all the time, and specifically about how flimsy the anti-Iranian propaganda is.
I still want to get some clarification on the issue of female testimony in Iranian courts that I brought up in a different thread. I believed that if, for instance, a woman is raped by a man, and in court she says "he raped me", then he says "no, I didn't", that means he's innocent, unless the crime was witnessed, as an Iranian court holds the testimony of a man in higher regard than that of a woman.
Everytime I try to look up information about that, all I can find is either Wikipedia stuff (which is untrustworthy in most cases), or Right-wing sites (which would have an agenda to say it is so), or Left-wing sites (which would have an agenda to say it isn't so).
Anyone able to shed some irrefutable light on this issue? I'm hoping that it's just one of those false rumours that I've picked up from somewhere years ago before I was really interested in politics.
I believed that if, for instance, a woman is raped by a man, and in court she says "he raped me", then he says "no, I didn't", that means he's innocent, unless the crime was witnessed
let's say that's a fact. How else is the judiciary system different in UK? there, in the case of rape without witnesses is also his word against her word. right?
an Iranian court holds the testimony of a man in higher regard than that of a woman.
Kate, in a prior thread you mentioned a woman counts half as much as a man. The only thing I could think of that it might relate to is inheritance, where, when splitting an estate, a daughter "might" get half as much as a son {I am not 100% sure here} from inheritance.
Now bear in mind the men are supposed to look after the women in their family, so men are supposed to have double the financial responsibility.
Though people can do wills in both Iran and UK .. and if someone didn't want to follow the default, they could make a will.
I believed that if, for instance, a woman is raped by a man, and in court she says "he raped me", then he says "no, I didn't", that means he's innocent, unless the crime was witnessed
let's say that's a fact. How else is the judiciary system different in UK? there, in the case of rape without witnesses is also his word against her word. right?
No; I don't mean person A's word against person B's. Let me clarify my question:
I mean that what I had heard/believed (and am now severely doubting) was if a man testified that something was so, then that was held in higher, and not equal regard to the testimony of a woman. Ergo, if she claimed rape (or anything else) and he denied it, the court would automatically take his side.
What I am asking for clarification on is whether it is true (or hopefully false) that the testimony of a man in an Iranian court is considered more trustworthy and of greater value than that of a woman.
If I am not wrong I think that applies more to Pakistan than Iran, referring to that rape case where the culptits walked away I am sure you remember it.
But other than that mandy is right. In almost all muslim countries men get more inheritance than women unless stated otherwise in the will.
What I am asking for clarification on is whether it is true (or hopefully false) that the testimony of a man in an Iranian court is considered more trustworthy and of greater value than that of a woman.
would they base that on what the koran says? i'm guessing you wouldn't know neko, but does anyone else? there was someone called t that signed up the other day that might be able to shed some light on this ...
Note the last paragraph "In certain situations, the scripture accepts the testimony of a woman as equal to that of a man's and that her testimony can even invalidate his, such as when a man accuses his wife of unchastity"
That means a woman's testimony in some cases is worth more than a man ..
What I am asking for clarification on is whether it is true (or hopefully false) that the testimony of a man in an Iranian court is considered more trustworthy and of greater value than that of a woman.
would they base that on what the koran says?
Luke, I doubt anything as such would be based on what the koran says.
I am not a Koran specialist but I know for fact that one of the first tenets of Islam is equality of man & woman.
Long time ago I watched a movie by Mustapha Akkad called " The Message".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074896/
It's worth watching. At the beginning of the movie a messanger travels to different kingdoms and conveys a message from Muhammad, and the first thing he talks about is this equality.
I think in Islam like other relegions, some clerics interpret Koran according to their own preference, just like you have so many different rabbis or priests with different interpretations.
"In certain situations, the scripture accepts the testimony of a woman as equal to that of a man's..."
Yea, but the formulation of that sentence - specifically the use of "certain" - seems to imply that in other (most?) situations it doesn't accept that.
I'm sure this is nothing unique to Iran, though. The rulers of the Muslim world are pretty much all corrupt puppets, are they not? So why would anyone be surprised if their laws are sometimes oppressive?
The important point is of course not to use these facts to build up hatred of countries the USA is targetting and using them as a spurious reason to wage capitalist, imperialist war.
well first i have to say damn that's a lot of information to sift through
secondly, i can help you out on this point a little, but there's a problem:
i'm sunni, and iran is ruled by shia laws.
now technically these should not be different if they are both from the Quran, but i must admit that some iranian laws do seem pretty cryptic to the average sunni.
i have a lot of information on inheritance if you would like, but i must say my experience with testimony is limited.
i should point out that finding this stuff out isn't equatable to making a google search
the Quran is meant to be a book of law, and just as you would need to ask a lawyer's opinion on a legal matter in the west, you would likewise have to ask an islamic lawyer's opinion on a matter like this, and unfortunately, neither are likely to be prowling these forums...
"Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two women may substitute for one man as witness."
- i think that is the part you were looking for
i must say though that it is slightly amusing and surreal to get on pretty much any forum online nowadays and open them up to a sea of questions and examinations of my religion
"Pundits from all points on the political spectrum examine the Qur'ān as a
key to Muslim 'consciousness' and mine it for ammunition with which to
denounce Islam.
Sometimes, as I listen to the qur'ānic prooftexts that are trotted out
by columnists and
commentators with gasps of amazement at their war-laden imagery, I
find myself thinking that
these people have certainly forgotten their Bible, if they ever knew it at all."
She is the editor of the the Encyclopedia of the Quran,
and was appointed Dean of the College at Georgetown University in 1999. She is also a tenured Professor in the Department of History and the Department of Arabic and Islamic Studies.
Nice points about how much more repressed women are in other Islamic countries; like Saudi Arabia (forbidden even to drive cars), Kuwait (women only got the right to vote this year !) etc; of course two, (or even more) wrongs don’t make a right, but very telling these are very rarely highlighted as Iran is regarding this issue.
despite not being the most current, does seems the most informative, but I will not pretend that I read through it all, however I liked the fact that it’s concluding lines were optimistic, & suggested how secular feminists, and Islamist women activists, two groups that may appear to be opposites, are actually advancing women’s rights, almost inadvertently, by the contrast between their approaches.
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