Saddam to hang
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mickyv



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well its the first day of a new year, but I’ve awoken still in the same mood that I had last night/early morning, not too good. Last night in fact, I found myself with a compulsive urge to write, so I started a Blog, which I reproduce here as this thread was part of the reason that I had this compulsion. .....

I'm in a sombre, reflective mood, which is what has probably lead me to seek out this outlet for my feelings. A mood no doubt brought on partly by the fire crackers I can hear as I write this, which signals both the end of 2006 & start of a new year, and also partly by those images of a man, calmly & with great dignity, playing out his final part in the masquerade orchestrated by our "Leaders" of Lies.

I know that he himself was ruthless & showed no mercy to his many victims, yet even for somebody like that, it was unnerving to watch hooded men causally put a noose around another human's neck, taunting & insulting, before putting him to death. In a strange way, it feels that the greater the criminal, the more necessary it seems to be for our own self-respect, to be able to raise ourselves above base instincts of vengeance, and to show to the criminal, and more importantly to ourselves, that we are different to the criminal because we are capable of keeping our morals & ethics intact, especially in the face of great evil, that we are capable of something no murderer can be, of showing mercy & respecting the life of a fellow human being, even a mass murderer's.

The whole Iraq affair has badly affected me, going right back to the insanity of the Iraq/Iran War, to the 1st Gulf War, the decade of the relentless "No Fly Zone" bombings, the UN sanctioned genocidal "sanctions", and of course the latest War Crimes against Iraq, it's horrendous invasion, occupation & repercussions.

Perhaps blogging will replace my normal outlet for such feeling, which is poetry, and at a time like this, I find myself going back to my old file of half completed poems, and bring out one, which I no longer want to finish, as it seems so apt to let it end abruptly as did the life of its main protagonist. -


The Bombing of Eden

It happen before, that Cruise missiles rained down
Upon Mesopotamian towns with Biblical names
Without mercy that ancient land did they pound
Destroyed people and buildings, filled in graves.

Using a trap as a pretext, was it just a decade ago,
The light to Kuwait for Saddam turned Green
The Americans saying “it’s an Arab affair”, Go !
After all for this, for years had they schemed.

“To right a wrong” Bush Senior did say,
To restore Kuwait as it was before.
“To right a wrong” Saddam did say
To restore Kuwait to Iraq as it was before.

And so the relentless bombing succeeded
Kuwait was Kuwait again as he retreated
But was that not a mistake not to pursue,
Perhaps at least a civil war we can induce.

Rise up you Southern Sh’ites , Kurds of the North
We will support you, with our bombing campaign
The No-Fly Zones will insure henceforth
That if Saddam kills you it won’t be by plane.

The Rebellion is crushed and thousands did die,
For that inglorious plan to bring down that Man
Bush’s anger increased from the sky
A decade of relentless bombing began.

Year after year, the bombings kept on
Yet still He remained, He and his Sons
Oxymoroning those plans of the Pentagon
Instead of weakening, He was second to none.

Not enough people dying to dislodge him ?
An orchestrated genocidal sanctions route
Will surely get through to every Iraqi Muslim
That supporting Him is not at all astute.

However the Planners have still not learnt
People who feel threaten will unite and resist
And rally to their Leader through fear and hurt
Even to Him, who most would like to dismiss.

The Father is now gone and the Son appears
To finish the job, whatever it takes, no matter the cost
Lies upon lies, and the people of Iraq start to fear
When Blair joins the game, all Peace has been lost.

For War will prevail under repeated lies,
A precedent set by the attack on the Serbs
An act of aggression, disguised and justified
By propaganda that was sublimely superb

Back to Iraq and all pretence is now off,
We aim to kill him, and all in our way
Our smart weapons will find him if he coughs
We’ll level whole blocks, it’s worth the slay

Damn we keep missing, but still kill scores
Let’s Shock and Awe them like frighten sheep
Death and destruction upon them we did pour
Not bothering to keep count of lives so cheap.

Now we have to go in as he just won’t die
At least it’s like ten Goliaths, we cannot lose
First we blast them to Hell, then watch them fry
As we have the Power and plan to misuse.

We carpet bombed with cluster & napalm
Just to test our great efficiency at killing
B-52s and Sleaths dropped without qualm
The scale of it all was thoroughly thrilling.

How cowardly they run from our finery
Instead of melting in sand they get flighty
Better not try and hide in those Refineries
As that would be one dilemma almighty

It’s safe to go in, now their army a relic
Using antique arms we sold decades ago
To use now on us would be quite pathetic
Good money was made, arming Him & his Foe.

When Saddam was ours, we were so sympathetic
Banned weapons & gas from us did flow,
What was supplied may now seem ironic
But Profit & getting Khomeini, were our goals.
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faceless
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great poem Micky - nice one
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janbo1960



Joined: 29 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine words.... Mickeyv
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mickyv



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for your kind comments. I have no pretensions that what I write is very good, or even good per se, but as some people I trust have said, that some of my words have resonated with them, it has encouraged me to be less shy about making public my writings.

Going back to the ugly & degrading execution of Saddam, many commentators are saying that it was deliberately planned by the Bush Neocons, to maximise the potential in trying to escalate the war, both by the clearly sectarian aspect as well as the religious timing. The more sectarian strife there is, the more the puppet Government can justify the presence of the US troops, and for the US, even more Muslims killing each other, is one better than Divide & Rule, as it’s more like Rule by Annihilation.
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janbo1960



Joined: 29 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mickyv wrote:
Thank you both for your kind comments. I have no pretensions that what I write is very good, or even good per se, but as some people I trust have said, that some of my words have resonated with them, it has encouraged me to be less shy about making public my writings.

Going back to the ugly & degrading execution of Saddam, many commentators are saying that it was deliberately planned by the Bush Neocons, to maximise the potential in trying to escalate the war, both by the clearly sectarian aspect as well as the religious timing. The more sectarian strife there is, the more the puppet Government can justify the presence of the US troops, and for the US, even more Muslims killing each other, is one better than Divide & Rule, as it’s more like Rule by Annihilation.


I have always said that when it comes to US Foreign policy..... that you reap what you sew!!! either side of 9/11
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micky I'd like to compliment you on the person you are. What you had to say was quite moving, and it shows you're a compassionate and caring human being.

I'd like to think this murder of Saddam bothered people in the same way it bothered you, me and many others I know, but unfortunately that isn't the case. So many are filled with hate and revenge, but at the end of the day his death won't bring back any of his victims or ease the pain of their friends and family. By rejoicing in it will only help in making them colder, more angry and ugly inside.

The taunting he had to listen to and the yelling just minutes before his death were the actions of people reaching down as low as they could possibly go with showing an utter lack of a soul or any human decency whatsoever, and I hope one day they see themselves for what and who they are.

I'm sure your writings will help a lot of people or atleast help them understand a bit more of why you feel the way you do, and I truly hope it makes a difference in the way some think.
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pirtybirdy
'Native New Yorker'


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: FL USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one, am glad Saddam is dead. I would have preferred he got the needle instead of the rope around the neck, but that is how his country likes to do things, so.........This guy was a madman, sick and twisted, and he got what he deserved in the end.
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lefty



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: Slough, Berks.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh you've got loads on your mind, well done, that was well written.
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faceless
admin


Joined: 25 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pirtybirdy wrote:
I for one, am glad Saddam is dead. I would have preferred he got the needle instead of the rope around the neck, but that is how his country likes to do things, so.........This guy was a madman, sick and twisted, and he got what he deserved in the end.


Why it is that you'd be glad about a stranger being murdered in public who has never affected you, or your family, or anyone you know, and was never likely to, is beyond me. If it's because of what he did to the Iraqis as a whole then Bush and Blair are responsible for more civilian deaths - so they should be murdered too?
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mickyv



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pirtybirdy: "I for one, am glad Saddam is dead. I would have preferred he got the needle instead of the rope around the neck, but that is how his country likes to do things, so.........This guy was a madman, sick and twisted, and he got what he deserved in the end."


I’m sure that Saddam was also glad that many of his victims were dead, some of whom he probably considered “mad, sick & twisted” & “getting what they deserved”, so perhaps there’s not too much difference in both your attitude to morality ?

Can you not see my point about raising ourselves above such uncivilized attitudes ?
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mickyv wrote:
pirtybirdy: "I for one, am glad Saddam is dead. I would have preferred he got the needle instead of the rope around the neck, but that is how his country likes to do things, so.........This guy was a madman, sick and twisted, and he got what he deserved in the end."


I’m sure that Saddam was also glad that many of his victims were dead, some of whom he probably considered “mad, sick & twisted” & “getting what they deserved”, so perhaps there’s not too much difference in both your attitude to morality ?

Can you not see my point about raising ourselves above such uncivilized attitudes ?


I can't speak for anyone, but (I feel) a lot of Americans have bitter feelings towards him because of their troops being over there, the massive amount of deaths which is now over 3000 and because of what he did to his own people. Some people can't get past that, and then of course you have people who believe in the death penalty and feel it's just.

There's probably more in the world that feel as Pirty does than the ones that feel it wasn't necessary. It sounds horrid to those that believe the death penalty another forum of murder, and it's something you can argue till your teeth fall out, but you can't change the minds of some people.

I don't agree with how Pirty sees it, but like us, she has a right to express how she feels, and I just can't see her waivering from that at all no matter how someone expresses themself.

What you had to say in your initial post was quite lovely and I agree with you completely, but some view our opinion as odd because of the brutality the man caused. It's what makes us all so different as humans.
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mickyv



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your comments, and I wish to state that my intentions are not really to try convert anybody to my point of view, rather it’s more personal to me, as I really want to understand how & why others think the way they do, to understand why their views are different to mine. Anyhow these are my thoughts on what you wrote;

There may be some Americans with bitter feelings towards Saddam because their troops are being murdered, but surely the person who put them there is more to blame, especially as he lied to get them there, so it is wrong to point out to these people that their bitterness is perhaps misplaced ?


I actually believe it is more down to the propaganda that demonized him as the modern Hitler, as I cannot really find it creditable that suddenly people care about how the ordinary Iraqis suffered under this dictator, when this was going on for decades, and the worst of it when our Governments supported him politically & practically (weapons etc). According to Amnesty International, in the last year before the invasion, there were about 70 political killings in Iraq, which yes is quite grotesque, but in actuality compares quite well with dozens of other regimes. To highlight my point about propaganda that people are subjected to, I’ve pasted below a copy of a letter that was sent to the Telegraph today.

Final point about others considering our opinions as odd because of the brutality he caused, well I must be very odd because I simply cannot understand people who will condone or tolerate brutality because they don’t approve of brutality !!


Letter to Telegraph;

As an American I APOLOGIZE to the entire world for the Cheap, Common, Lying, FOOL who has pilfered and retained through trickery and LIES, the title of president of the USA.

I never thought I would say that I am ashamed of my country....but I say it now with Defiance, Anguish, and the most intense Indignation born of shame.

I am ashamed of the system of "education" which discharges blank slates of indoctrination and obedience and arrogance into the world, making it a living hell for normal human beings from normal lands.

I am ashamed of the tens of thousands of goons who scream "USA, USA, USA" at the buffoon's vulgar rallies....screams that speak not to love of their country so much as HATE for all the others.

I am ashamed of "statesmen" who ate "Freedom Fries" instead of French Fries.

I am appalled and ashamed of the embarrassing LOW-BROW, RIGHT-WING, HATE-CONSUMED,and Utterly LYING commercial talk-radio of rush limbaugh, and sean hannity (and thousands of other "under the radar" local variants of slime-media all over America trying to steal a quick buck by lying for the interests of big business uber alles !

I am ashamed of a "culture" that fears and loathes learning as much as it celebrates ignorance, crudeness, and vulgarity.

I urge all Britons to eavesdrop on American commercial "talk radio" to understand the truth of where America has come to.

The world needs to know how mercilessly and thoroughly milllions upon millions of Americans are propagandized and indoctrinated every minute of every day by the Goon Squad of corporate radio Bunko men.

Britain, and the rest of the world need to hear just how dangerous the are the malignant and lies told to Americans by low-brow, rightist "talk radio".

For their own good and their very lives, Britons need to comprehend how relentless is the routine of coarse, ignorant, drivel with which benighted Americans are deluged.

I am beseeching the British people and the British leadership to actually LISTEN in to the low-brow, rightist commercial radio which poisoned America like a Tsunami of Polonium; turning our once proud land mean and dumb and ugly beyond comprehension.

I am asking Britons to listen to this filth and to warn the world about it, lest it buttresss America's newly flexed Hostility for yet more mass death and ugliness.

This "radio" of which I speak is THE reason why many in America yet defend what is paplably Indefensible to the entire civilized world.

America needs to be shamed by what it has it hears on its media and by what it has become as a consequence.

God Forgive Us.

Jay Diamond

NY
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quite surprised that the Telegraph published that as it's usually quite right-wing and in support of Bush et al.
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mickyv



Joined: 12 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is surprising, and their Opinion piece even more so;


Execution gives Saddam a martyr's crown

Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 02/01/2007

Comment on this story Read comments

In Washington the air is heavy with recrimination as the implications of Saddam Hussein's grotesquely botched execution sink in. What should have been an act of justice following due process had the baying ugliness of a lynching. A judicial execution designed to show finally that the era of Saddam is over threatens to have the opposite effect. When a dictator of exceptional brutality is shown dying with dignity and no little courage at the hands of hooded thugs, the martyr's crown surely beckons. No wonder American officials are washing their hands of the whole gruesome affair, and Tony Blair is refusing to make any comment from his Miami poolside.

There is some justice in American claims that it is the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al-Maliki who must shoulder the burden of blame for this debacle. He trampled over religious and legal sensibilities to expedite the execution. The Iraqi constitution (by which the American-led coalition sets such store) requires President Jalal Talabani and his two vice-presidents to sign a decree of authorisation for any execution. Mr Maliki effectively ignored this requirement. Even more inflammatory as far as Iraq's Sunni minority is concerned was his flouting of the Iraqi law that executions should not take place during the Id al-Adha holiday. For Sunnis, that began on Saturday, the day of Saddam's execution.

If this had been some careless piece of provocation by an inept government, it would be one thing. But the anti-Sunni chanting of the masked executioners as Saddam died and the way the whole repellent scene was swiftly put into the public domain suggests something more menacing. The Maliki government appears to have used the execution to send a calculated message to Iraqi Sunnis that the Shias are the masters now. An administration whose overriding purpose should be to unify Iraq begins to look like a factional regime intent on repaying the Sunni minority for Saddam's decades of oppression of the Shias.
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American sources have insisted there was little they could do to avert this latest calamity. They may be dismayed at Baghdad's dismal incompetence yet are constrained from intervening on the grounds that it would simply undermine the fledgling regime. Yet as President Bush completes his plans for a significant reinforcement of US forces in a final attempt to quell sectarian unrest in Baghdad, Saddam's execution looks likely only to inflame the situation and make the prospects of an orderly withdrawal by the coalition more remote than ever. Mr Bush could be forgiven for thinking that everything he touches in this ill-starred country turns to dross.
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IRiSHMaFIA
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I appreciate your comments, and I wish to state that my intentions are not really to try convert anybody to my point of view, rather it’s more personal to me, as I really want to understand how & why others think the way they do, to understand why their views are different to mine. Anyhow these are my thoughts on what you wrote;


I fully understand what your intentions are and didn't think for a minute you were trying to convert anyone. I basically said what I did because one thing I can say about Pirty, she is usually on the opposing side of a lot of opinions here but she steps up and always gives her full and honest opinion no matter how things are presented. I always have and always will give her kudos for that even though we don't see things the same politically.

Quote:
There may be some Americans with bitter feelings towards Saddam because their troops are being murdered, but surely the person who put them there is more to blame, especially as he lied to get them there, so it is wrong to point out to these people that their bitterness is perhaps misplaced ?


I'm sure the majority of Americans that didn't vote for Bush despise him for putting Americans in harms way the way he has and continues to do. I'm also sure there are a lot of republicans out there that can't stand the decisions he's made and can't wait to get him out of the whitehouse, but unfortunately this madman is in for another couple years and there's not much they can do.

I'd like to believe there's as much hatred for Bush as there is for Saddam. Bush is responsible for 3000 dead Americans, nearly bankrupting his country and being a pathological liar to the very people that voted him in and gave him their trust.

Quote:
I actually believe it is more down to the propaganda that demonized him as the modern Hitler, as I cannot really find it creditable that suddenly people care about how the ordinary Iraqis suffered under this dictator, when this was going on for decades, and the worst of it when our Governments supported him politically & practically (weapons etc). According to Amnesty International, in the last year before the invasion, there were about 70 political killings in Iraq, which yes is quite grotesque, but in actuality compares quite well with dozens of other regimes. To highlight my point about propaganda that people are subjected to, I’ve pasted below a copy of a letter that was sent to the Telegraph today.

Final point about others considering our opinions as odd because of the brutality he caused, well I must be very odd because I simply cannot understand people who will condone or tolerate brutality because they don’t approve of brutality !!


I can't speak for others but only for myself. I've made it my business to know what goes on in the world around me. I don't wait for something to happen and gain knowledge from newspaper articles etc. I prefer to gain knowledge from far credible sources...or the best I can find and make my own judgements.

For anyone that's taken the time to read about the middle east, they'd know that American politicians have been sleeping with and catering to their governments for years. They supplied Saddam with military weapons to fight against Iran and the list goes on and on. They didn't do this because they liked or trusted Saddam, they did this because they disliked and didn't trust Iran even less, so they gave him what he needed to defeat them.

It's a bit ironic that when Saddam attacked Kuwait, he used the very weapons that America supplied him, and it was America that were sent to liberate Kuwait. I'm sure if the Iraqi soldiers were in the same room with the American troops they could have compared weapons and you'd of seen a lot of the same....well other than the USA had a lot more and probably a lot newer technology etc...but I'm sure you get my point. It's all about hypocrisies and lies, and that sums up most politicians.

Find me an honest politician that's not corrupt in some manner and I'll find you a 4 headed pig.

As far as the letter goes that you've posted here, that's a person with a soul and willing to admit what a spineless liar and murderer their president is, and if there is a heaven or hell and Saddam has gone to hell, Bush will end up in the same place because he's as filthy and as much a murderer as Saddam was. They're cut from the same cloth as far as I'm concerned.
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