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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| it's just sad all round - the majority of Iraqis just want to get on with their lives and would probably rather still have Saddam in control. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | it's just sad all round - the majority of Iraqis just want to get on with their lives and would probably rather still have Saddam in control. |
Probably Bush & Blair fell the well. They could have done a deal with him. The origins of the 1990 war against Kuwait was economics : Kuwait demanding repayments of what they claim was a loan (to fund the invasion of Iran), and claims Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Marcella-FL wrote: | | Last I remember paying attention it was about 500 a day ... so close to 700,000? Am I close? Do I get a cookie? |
no cookie, its not a game
if you'd had said that a few years back you would have been right though - at least you didn't come out with 9890! we've had an escalation ( or 'surge' as the government and media like to call it ) since then - as well as the hardly reported air war being stepped up massively the last few years. the latest study by orb, on which their back in iraq at the moment doing more research, put the deaths at 1.2million
how much media coverage does the 700,000 figure you said get on american media? i know a little while ago a nexus/lexus search on the american media showed not one single outlet had covered the orb figures - but like it showed in one of the links i showed you in my last post, the british media aren't covering it either
| Marcella-FL wrote: | | you know face ... after I posted this I went and "googled" my listed facts and was thinking the same thing. I found something on wiki about the lancet report |
interesting that you picked the lancet report from a few years back and not the most recent orb study
| faceless wrote: | | it's just sad all round |
yeap  unless of course you have shares in halliburton, blackwater, bechtel etc ... as the number of people killed has risen, so have their shares ...
| faceless wrote: | | the majority of Iraqis just want to get on with their lives and would probably rather still have Saddam in control. |
like american and british public opinion, iraqi opinions are pretty well studied - the majority for ages now have been wanting the coalition forces to leave and support resistance attacks on our forces. but of course, in the 'democracy' we've installed by force, we don't care what they say - so we're going to stay anyway |
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Marcella-FL
Don't make me pull this van over!!!
Joined: 01 May 2006
Location: KMC, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Well - to be honest I do not keep up with the death reports every day - US or otherwise. I pretty much watch CNN, listen to NPR and surf all sorts of news outlets for my news fix. I think my original 500 a day was a CNN thing.
I know it isn't a game Luke. The cookie comment was being a smart ass on my part. I am a little bored with the "americans are idiots" slant - obviously we all shouldn't be painted with the same brush. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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i've never said and don't think americans are idiots. i don't think you can class americans as a whole - the same as you can't class the citizens in any other country as a whole. theres idiots in this country, theres people who just aren't interested in world affairs in this country, there are people that are. like ghandi said, civilization is the encouragement of differences. civilization thus becomes a synonym of democracy. force, violence, pressure, or compulsion with a view to conformity, is both uncivilized and undemocratic
wouldn't it be boring if we all thought the same? we'd be like robots |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| luke wrote: | | wouldn't it be boring if we all thought the same? we'd be like robots |
divide by zero error in subroutine1
ABORT!!!
NPR's a great source btw - www.npr.org |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| luke wrote: | i've never said and don't think americans are idiots. i don't think you can class americans as a whole - the same as you can't class the citizens in any other country as a whole. theres idiots in this country, theres people who just aren't interested in world affairs in this country, there are people that are. like ghandi said, civilization is the encouragement of differences. civilization thus becomes a synonym of democracy. force, violence, pressure, or compulsion with a view to conformity, is both uncivilized and undemocratic
wouldn't it be boring if we all thought the same? we'd be like robots |
It may not have been your intention. But I totally understand where Marcella is coming from. I get the same vibe from it all too. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Skylace wrote: | | It may not have been your intention. But I totally understand where Marcella is coming from. I get the same vibe from it all too. |
i'm really sorry if thats how you perceived what i've been saying. those that think that, could you quote some bits please that you've read that have made you think that? then i can try and better articulate what i'm trying to say in future 
i know lots of americans, i've done work for lots of americans, from amarillo in texas to buffalo up near canada, and they're in no way all stupid or all the same. i even know, and get on well with, people who voted for bush - some of them have even stayed at my place!  even the christian ones! 
now if we're talking about americans dancing stupidly ... well, thats a whole different story |
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SpursFan1902
Pitch Queen
Joined: 24 May 2007
Location: Sunshine State
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Not to beat a dead horse, but that is how I perceived things as well. Guess it is kinda hard to transmit intention thru a message board. It is a vibe that comes thru your writing and the articles that you choose to share. I am off to class now, but I will try to find examples. |
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Mandy
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Wonder what vibes people get about me .. |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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its not beating dead horse, i'd really like to understand how i've come across as thinking all americans are stupid.
its interesting, a mate of mine married an american and moved over there - this was just as the iraq war was kicking off, she initially thought i was 'anti-american' - it took a while for her to get to know me and understand when i'm criticising the actions of any government ( i criticise the british government more than the american ), the media or the actions of large corporations, i don't equate them with the people in those countrys.
like i hope you don't see the shit our government gets up to and has done in the past and think thats our ( the peoples ) fault |
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luke
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Location: by the sea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandy wrote: | | Wonder what vibes people get about me .. |
well, definitely different ones since i heard about your massive high heeled red shoes |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| luke wrote: | its not beating dead horse, i'd really like to understand how i've come across as thinking all americans are stupid.
its interesting, a mate of mine married an american and moved over there - this was just as the iraq war was kicking off, she initially thought i was 'anti-american' - it took a while for her to get to know me and understand when i'm criticising the actions of any government ( i criticise the british government more than the american ), the media or the actions of large corporations, i don't equate them with the people in those countrys.
like i hope you don't see the shit our government gets up to and has done in the past and think thats our ( the peoples ) fault |
Sorry, I've been off doing stuff and haven't had time to respond.
I think it's the way that you (and many others) do generalize statements. By saying anything where you say "Americans" that does lump us together. If someone said to me "Women can't play cards" that's a very different statement than saying "Some women" or "Most women". So if you say "Americans" don't know what is going on number wise or in anything similar you are lumping us all together.
I know our government right now is crap and our government has a lot of power but it shouldn't be a reflection on us.
I also know from experience that many people have a lot of assumptions about Americans (just like Americans do about other countries) the idea that we have no notion about what happens outside of our own country, etc.
I just get sick and tired of constantly hearing about everything America does wrong and how "stupid" the American people are. And this is not directed at you at all luke. It's what is out in the media and the general feeling I have gotten from lots of people.
I for one don't believe that America or any country is the best. There never will be. But I do know that Americans overall are kind, loving, generous people, most with average intelligence, just like the rest of the world.
I also don't see articles being posted here (at least not that I recall) that often about how people in Germany, England, France, wherever else don't know what is going on or how they are constantly screwing up.
Not all of this may make a lot of sense but I will be honest and say first I have a throbbing headache and second I am getting tired of the US being shown as ignorant and clueless as to what is going on in the rest of the world and in our own country. |
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faceless
admin
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally I don't see why anyone cares what anyone else says about the country they live in. I live in Scotland, and we always get the stories about Scots being mean, penny-pinching, haggis munchers. I'm not offended by that in the slightest, and why should I be? |
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Skylace
Admin
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| faceless wrote: | | Personally I don't see why anyone cares what anyone else says about the country they live in. I live in Scotland, and we always get the stories about Scots being mean, penny-pinching, haggis munchers. I'm not offended by that in the slightest, and why should I be? |
That's fine if that's how you feel. But it isn't how everyone else does.
There are things that don't upset me and never would that I am sure would get to you. |
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